There has been a background story of Technical Difficulties running in life since the start of the month, or slightly before, that has turned into a major situation.
Let me start at the setup. For the last 11 years, I've been driving a 2009 Ford Explorer, bought in January of '12. It was a high mileage car; it was bought by the original owner in November of 2009, so really just over two years old when we bought it; 26 months if you prefer, and 45.6 thousand miles - that comes out to over 1700 miles per month. It's a high MSRP version of the Explorer, the Eddie Bauer model with leather seats, and all sorts of comfort options added.
When I was working, I never put that kind of mileage on it; more like 75
miles/week, and it was becoming a low mileage car. Now, at 13 years old,
it has just gone over 90,000 and I've not quite doubled the mileage it had in
the first 26 months. These days, it's unusual if I put more than 30 miles
on it in a week.
In September of '21, one of the important modules failed, the Anti-lock Brake System module, which is considered important because it can affect the car's safety. Because of being safety-related, it sets off an alarm that sounds for 30 seconds, when I turn the car on, and then sounds for another 30 seconds every five minutes while driving. After taking it to the garage I tend to use and then the dealer, I found that nobody can get the modules because of the legendary "supply chain issues," and I've been driving it with that alarm screaming at me every five minutes for 3 months shy of two years.
Now that we're setup, it's time for the story.
Back around the end of June, the car's computer threw a new warning at me: "Check LR Light" (Left Rear). Sure enough the bulb was out and I bought a replacement. It didn't work either. Looking closer, it looked to me like the socket was corroded. I sprayed it with DeOxIT, then plugged and unplugged the bulb a few times. Presto, it worked. For about five minutes. To my way of thinking that means it's valid to ask if it's that top part of the socket, or the bottom side; the connection of the car's wiring to the socket. I decided to bring it back to the small garage I mentioned above. I brought it in on July 5th. Since it was approaching three years (and under 3000 miles) since my last oil change, I had them do that and a tire rotation.
To my surprise, later that day they called and said they could get the ABS
module I've been living without for nearly two years. It had gone up 20%
from the price I thought I remembered from two years ago, from $1500 to $1800,
but with two years of bidenflation, it makes sense.
I picked it up on Friday the 7th, and it was a different car. We drove up to our local grocery store and both of us kind of reflexively cringed a little as we were getting to the light close to the store because that's where the ABS alarm always screamed.
On Sunday the 9th on the way to church, the Check Engine Light came on.
Back to the shop on 7/10. There was something I wanted adjusted at the
shop and I pointed out the CEL being on. They dismissed as being from
the new module, and read the codes back with their computer. It said the
fuel system wasn't sealed properly, another of those EPA-related faults.
They said to "keep an eye on it" without saying just how I could know if it
got worse. Since the ABS module failure kept the CEL always on, those
few days were the only times in two years it wasn't on.
We only drove two places in the week, to the grocery store and to a pet supply
store in the opposite direction. The car acted completely normal with
that CEL being the only oddity. This was on Friday, 7/14.
Last Sunday, 7/16, we got into the car to go to church and it wouldn't
start. Sounded completely dead, too. No clicking, no solenoid
sounds, nothing. I tried my jump starter and it wouldn't do anything,
either.
Now it's Monday, 7/17. I tried a charger designed for starting batteries; and then my jump starter again. Still no joy. I finally called a tow truck to bring it back up to the shop. It took until 2:30 PM; I had called for the truck at about 9:30.
I expected a call by the end of the day Monday, and called to ask about it
Tuesday around 1PM. The shop supervisor said they had reached the limits
of what their test equipment could tell them, and tow it to the dealer.
He said he thought it was the PCM or Powertrain Control Module, which they
can't supply or program. The towing delay wasn't as bad as Monday, but
they didn't pick up the car until about 3:45 and it was at the dealership a
little after 4.
It's being worked on by a technician the service manager says is among their
most senior and best. They haven't determined what's wrong, after
working on it since Wednesday.
In my spare time, I've been contemplating if I really want to sink a lot of
money into a 13 year old car, but it might not be my call. If it's
unfixable, that forces the decision. If it's many thousands to fix it,
it's worth having considered options. The most reliable cars I've ever owned were my 1990 Jeep Cherokee, which had over 150,000 miles when I switched to a Toyota Matrix, the other most reliable car. A Matrix was a Corolla with a different body on it, and you know how they are.
From the Podcast Macabre.
Good luck. I've always driven my cars/vans until they can't drive no more.
ReplyDeleteLast time was with the 96 GMC Safari (a very good vehicle) that I put over 300,000 miles and survived getting hit over 10 times. Got enough money to replace it, found the Ram Promaster City and paid cash and traded in the knackered-out Safari.
So far, for being a Fiat, the RPC just works. Only had to change a battery so far, as I do live in Florida and Florida eats batteries.
I’m a hobbyists car mechanic nowadays. Recently had to replace the ecm on my 2007 Dodge 2500 Cummins pickup. The process involved taking the valve cover and exhaust rockers off the engine to read the 6 digit alphanumeric characters that are laser etched on the fuel injectors. That information was then written to the new ecm for the truck to run properly. The information wasn’t available from the old ecm. Luckily since retiring I have the time to learn how to troubleshoot problems myself instead of paying someone to fix it. My 4 vehicles have just over 1,000,000 miles and today all 4 are running.
ReplyDeleteOUCH! Proverbial Rock-and-a-hard-place! Many times the warnings about the "Fuel System Not Sealed" can be traced down as it's pretty specific. SLW would leave the gas cap loose sometimes on both her Nissan and Hyundai, and it threw the same code.
ReplyDeleteThe completely dead issue is something else. Not responding to a decent jump starter should lead them in the direction they need to go.
Did you try and charge the battery, or just jump it? Does the car have a voltmeter, or just a lamp? What voltage was the alternator putting out, as measured at the battery, with your DMM?
Sounds like it might be a dead or degraded fusible link or a Master Fuse.
Keep us posted. Finding parts for an older car can be frustrating. JAMHIK!
About a month ago my 1997 Honda Civic wouldn't crank. Dash light would not work either. I had driven it the previous day with no issues. The battery was major dead. I put my charger on it and the ammeter on the charger wouldn't even twitch. It would not begin to take a charge. I replaced the battery and all was well. No battery drain or charge issues so I have no idea what killed the battery. It had plenty electrolyte in the cells.
ReplyDeleteBattery first, connections/cables next, fuses/fusible links next. My 2004 Ford Taurus has two separate fuse boxes under the hood. It's likely your Explorer has two under the hood. Also check the body/chassis grounds. If bad, your computer will not function or will act abnormally.
You've reached that point where the Ford is going to nickle and dime you to death. That's just how most American cars are. Eventually they have cascade failures. Now's probably the time to bite the bullet and buy a new/newish Toyota or Honda before ICE vehicles become unobtainium...which is THE goal of the criminals in power. Odds are one of those could outlast you. If you get a long lived American car you have been lucky. Odds of getting a long lived Japanese car are much much higher.
ReplyDeleteA problem is that "nickle and dime you to death" is that it's more like 500 and $1000 me to death.
DeleteMy 1994 GMC Suburban K1500 has almost 499,000 miles on it and is still running fine.
ReplyDeleteHang onto the Toyota. I have had several, none of them ever had anything fail except the consumables (brake pads, etc.) until I got rid of them at over 300,000 out of sheer boredom. American cars are junk. The wife bought a diesel Dodge RAM pickup in 1992, and we still have it at ~400,000 miles, but literally everything except the springs and the Cummins engine has broken at some point or another -- including the speedometer, which is why my mileage is an estimate. It's the only American vehicle I ever owned, and it was made in Mexico.
ReplyDeleteMy check engine light is on all the time too. I know what it is, but I also wonder what else it might be throwing, so I need to read the codes every so often. The fix would be so easy, if Ford hadn't stuck that little hose under the intake manifold, turning a 10-minute repair into a 2.5 hr job.
ReplyDeleteBest of luck with that. I'm sure you'll do your due diligence if you end up buying another vehicle. I wouldn't touch a late-model Jeep with a 10-foot pole, let alone own one. Newer vehicles have all sort of oddments, such as microprocessors in the lamp assemblies - yes, they're controlled via CANbus going to your headlights and taillights. That provides an opening for theft because the thieves can rip off the bumper cover and get to that bus connector, then spoof the commands to unlock the vehicle and tell it it's OK to start up.
All the new crap getting ladled on to vehicles is more things that can fail, be difficult to diagnose, and expensive to repair. Totally sucks for buyers who want a low-mileage vehicle.
Lots of good comments here.
ReplyDeleteStarting with the battery, yes, I put a charger on it that tells me what its % charge was. On Monday morning, it said 92%. I just let it sit for at least an hour when the charger was saying it was in maintenance mode. The one thing the small shop said was they were sure the battery was good.
The last time I talked with the dealer's service manager, he said the PCM wasn't communicating with the things that give it the input. Reading on my own, I find that Ford uses CAN Bus, which I've at least heard about in the trade magazines I still get. It's a wired network, of course, which means they have a network controller somewhere to queue up the messages and feed them to the PCM. That could be better (cheaper) than replacing the PCM.
Finally, in reference to Jed's "I wouldn't touch a late-model Jeep with a 10-foot pole..." My '90 Cherokee was from right after Chrysler bought Jeep, but the only change that affected mine was they put the Chrysler logo on the keys. I've been concerned from the get go that I wouldn't get another one that could go 150k miles without needing a new transmission or something else that major.
My only concern with getting a replacement Toyota is that they dropped the Matrix model back in '14, and that body style worked very well for us. I'm looking into what's out there and available.
Fusible link is a good call. Chevrolet Cavalier,(don't laugh, it still runs) no crank, but panel and radio worked.Cables and connectors good. Since I had to get the stuff to make another link, now I carry a spare. Who does that?
ReplyDeleteI do! There are three fusible links in my "Old Toyota:, and I carry a couple of spares of each size in my "Road Kit".
DeleteAny corrosion on the battery cable? My ford ranger wouldn't start one day, no click, nothing, and long story short, the battery cable had corrosion so bad it wouldn't conduct, hidden up under the insulation. The auto parts stores sell a kit to extend the battery cable 6 inches, so the problem must be common. Just cut your cable back to where it's clean, add the extension, and (for me) the problem was solved.
ReplyDeleteBattery and alternator got replaced as part of the t -shooting, as one was old and the other tested poorly anyway, but the issue was the corroded cable.
nick
In the movie Contact, Mathew Mconoughe (?) is being interviewed, and he asks a VITAL question that few seriously contemplate;
ReplyDelete“Are we BETTER OFF, with all of this technology?”
i bought a SAAB 900 new in 1987 and drove it for 325k miles. only repairs were a water pump and ignition switch. best car I've ever had. USA auto manufacturing have been turning out total shit for a long time now; can't tell if it's planned obsolescence or not.
ReplyDeleteIt's the modern flavor of computer UI design. On one hand, running the programs produces a constant stream of error messages because we're using the widgets wrong. On the other hand, we'll show you a black screen during boot because that's stylistically similar to the all-white, empty houses in the architecture magazines. It's the computer version of feminism; take something practical like babies in 20's and career in 40's and reverse it, purely and deliberately because the reversed approach fails.
ReplyDelete"nickle and dime you to death" [...] more like 500 and $1000 me to death
Motel six was originally $6/night.
The five and dime store is now the dollar store.
Whatever happened to penny candy?
"Trailer for sale or rent / Rooms to let fifty cents"
In "brother, can you spare a dime" that dime was for a cup of coffee.
Hi Sig, I might suggest a check of the basics before moving forward with anything. I have replaced my share of abs control units as a shop technician so I'm not surprised to hear it failed on your vehicle. The pcm however, at least in my experience, is a far less common failure item. I have seen power transistors or drivers fail in a pcm due to some issue with the electrical load they supply but , overall, they often outlast the vehicle. Since you had two major control units fail, even thought they were two years apart, I would at least check the alternator output with a scope. It's remotely possible that you have either a bad voltage regulator allowing an overcharge, over-voltage situation or some maybe even ac voltage leaking into the system due to possibly failed diodes in the rectifier. I mean these are unlikely scenarios but they are things I would check. Also, mae sure you have good, tight, clean electrical connections at the battery terminals and wherever the battery negative cable terminates on the engine. Also look for a ground wire between the engine and chassis. Voltage spikes due to loose, poor connections can play havoc with the cars electronics. Btw, some manufacturers use the instrument cluster as a gateway for the controller area network...not that that is useful info. Carl
ReplyDeleteOh and I had another thought... that abs control unit could very well be on the can bus... I would advise disconnecting it to see if the communications on the can bus come back up before condemning the pcm. On trucks that had been towed in after being struck by lightning,I would disconnect control units and recheck for communication after each one as a bad one can often ground the network... I'm not sure any of this will help since you're not doing the work yourself. I've never been anything close to engineer level but I've fixed many many electrical and electronic systems on automotive systems from bmws to class 8 over the road freightliners... I sometimes miss it.
DeleteYour comment reminded me of a story my next door neighbor told me. He was driving his brand new Ford pickup to work and got hit with a lightening strike. It killed his engine and he coasted to the side of the road and called Ford warranty. He explained what happened and was told that Acts of God weren’t covered under warranty and the call dropped. He called back and got a different person and told her he was driving and the engine died. The truck got towed to a Dealer and got fixed under warranty.
DeleteI appreciate the input, Carl, but as you kind of say in your second comment, it's out of my control at this point since it's at the dealer. I didn't even have an OBD-II Code Reader until last week, and I'm not really setup to work on a car except in the driveway. Not good during the afternoon thunderstorms.
DeleteJust to clear up a minor point, I only had one ABS module fail, the original equipment. The replacement that I got back on the 6th is fine, as far as I could tell. If that's what you meant by "Since you had two major control units fail, even thought they were two years apart..." At this point I don't have a diagnosis on whatever is wrong that kept it from starting a week ago today (Sunday) and I assume is still keeping it from starting.
I dont know why...maybe The Devil possessed me ...but I bought a new Cad CT5 two weeks ago. Great driving car but the new fangled accessories are driving me nuts. It has a RADAR that detects a car in front of you and turns on a light and makes a beep. How did I survive 65(!!!) years of driving without it? But guess what...there is no car within a block. Its intermittent. But maybe its the drifting-out-of-lane detector which has the same light-beep warning. And then if you dont correct it shakes your steering wheel. But the real kicker is the key fob has a button to remote start the car. Very handy in case you get on Hillary's list and are worried about a bomb. The most likely event, though, is you fat finger the thing cleaning your pockets out for the night, start it in the garage and wake up dead the next morning. My advice is skip all options.
ReplyDelete