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Monday, November 4, 2024

China Shows Plans to Develop Starship Copy

The only thing surprising about that is that they announced it publicly.  Eric Berger at Ars Technica (that link) has been following them for years and reports on the changes to what has been called the Long March 9 since the initial concept was released about 10 years ago. The initial design concept drawings were a pretty conventional-looking rocket. It was fully expendable, with three stages and solid motors strapped onto its sides. That sounds like the US Space Launch System (or SLS).  

All that changed. Two years ago, China had re-imagined the design with a reusable first stage.

Now, based on information released at a major airshow in Zhuhai, China, the design has morphed again. And this time, the plan for the Long March 9 rocket looks almost exactly like a clone of SpaceX's Starship rocket.

Let me be clear that the Long March 9 is not a direct copy of Starship and Superheavy.  It's smaller and less powerful. 

Based on its latest specifications, the Long March 9 rocket will have a fully reusable first stage powered by 30 YF-215 engines, which are full-flow staged combustion engines fueled by methane and liquid oxygen, each with a thrust of approximately 200 tons. By way of comparison, Starship's first stage is powered by 33 Raptor engines, also fueled with methane and liquid oxygen, each with a thrust of about 280 tons.

The quick multiplication is that the Long March 9 will have 6000 tons of thrust while Starship Superheavy has 9240 tons of thrust, over 1.5 times the thrust of the Long March 9.

The new specifications also include a fully reusable configuration of the rocket, with an upper stage that looks eerily similar to Starship's second stage, complete with flaps in a similar location. According to a presentation at the airshow, China intends to fly this vehicle for the first time in 2033, nearly a decade from now.

A translated slide from a presentation on China's latest plans for the Long March 9. Credit: Weibo 

Note the Total Length of 114 meters; the Starship web site shows 121 m. On the other hand, this slide shows the diameter of the LM9 body to be 10.6m, while Starship is 9m. A direct comparison is difficult. Eric Berger adds:

In related news, last week, a quasi-private Chinese space startup, Cosmoleap, announced plans to develop a fully reusable "Leap" rocket within the next few years. An animated video that accompanied the funding announcement indicated that the company seeks to emulate the tower catch-with-chopsticks methodology that SpaceX successfully employed during Starship's fifth flight test last month.

Let's be real for a minute. These are not the first times Chinese rocket programs have emulated SpaceX, such as when Space Pioneer planned to develop a Falcon 9 clone. Both the state-run rocket agency and the company's private industries are copying the best practices of SpaceX as they seek to catch up. At this point, China's launch industry is basically hanging out in the SpaceX waiting room to see which ideas it should swipe next.

The idea that the Chinese are embedding people in American companies to return design information is practically as widespread as one could get. The big thing I notice here is that the Chinese (party) Space Agency recognizes that reusability is the key, while the NASA and the US congress still seem to want cost-plus jobs like the SLS. This excess cost, which some have noted seems to simply flow around between the space industry and the regulators, could be directed toward the kind of technological advances that might keep the US civil space program ahead of China.

A miniature model of the Long March 9.  Image credit Weibo. 



6 comments:

  1. a) China is good at copying stolen IP
    b) They'd better not get tofu-dreg built equipment in their program.
    c) It's just a matter of time before they screw the pooch, the only thing I wonder is how long/thoroughly they try to cover it up.

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  2. The worry that I have is that the political powers in this country (whoever they may turn out to be) , if unfriendly and they want to clamp down on SpaceX they can do it by claiming "National Security" . It could be a powerful cudgel in an unfriendly .gov environment.

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  3. Without commercial espionage....and traitors like the Clintons selling them tech....the Chinese would still be stuck technologically in the 50's...at best.

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  4. And so? You know the agency is going to specify X material and the purchasing manager will order X-1 material and pocket the difference, while the supplier will supply X-2 material and pocket the difference and the receiving agent will receive X-3 material and pocket the difference and the shop supervisor will give the employees X-4 material and pocket the difference, all of this after the CCP politboro member gets his cut and the army general of the district that makes the product gets his cut and and and.

    What's surprising is that the Chinese space station hasn't suffered a major catastrophe due to substandard materials. Yet. If they'd tell us it happened...

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    1. My point exactly, Beans. No, the CCP will NOT tell us there's any problems at all ("You see NOTHing, NuuuuuuhTHING!") and that shows the superiority of Chinese technological expertise. Don'cha know!

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  5. All the subcontractors and vendors have probably been told they perform to the full contract and provide materials to the full specification or they and their families would become organ donors. No corner cutting and no tofu-dreg.

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