Almost two weeks ago I posted a story about problems with my car I'd been having and called it the Weekend Update. This is an update to the update.
As of Monday the Explorer is out of the shop and back in service. It's working so far, although it worked for a few days two weeks ago. The bad problem that had it get towed to first my small, local chain shop and then to the dealer was that it wouldn't start no matter what. The small shop said it started for them once, and they thought it was the PCM (Powertrain Control Module) which they can't work on and the dealer said it wouldn't start for them. They were still troubleshooting it that weekend, I tentatively concluded with this:
In my spare time, I've been contemplating if I really want to sink a lot of money into a 13 year old car, but it might not be my call. If it's unfixable, that forces the decision. If it's many thousands to fix it, it's worth having considered options.
I'll leave out the most agonizing waiting parts, but by the end of last week, they were saying the tech had found that what was keeping it from starting was that the other shop had gotten brake fluid into a connector at the PCM. With it cleaned out, the car was starting reliably. The problem as it presented itself was that the PCM couldn't communicate with the instrument cluster, and that meant taking apart the dashboard area to get to things.
The other problem I mentioned was the check engine light coming on after about 15 minutes of driving, with the small shop showing that it was a sensor saying the fuel tank wasn't sealed properly. The dealership gave an estimate to repair, in close numbers $600 for the work that had been done and $1600 with replacing the fuel tank (EVAP) sensor.
Allow me to get philosophical for a minute. At some point in the two years with the bad ABS module, I noticed the CEL was on - as was (to my knowledge) every fault the dashboard has ever shown me. With no way of knowing that the CEL was caused by the EVAP sensor or the ABS module, the EVAP sensor could have been bad two years or it could have failed two weeks ago. Since the conventional wisdom is that the sensor only rarely causes anything serious, I opted to drive around with the CEL on and go with the cheaper option. I bought a OBD II code reader so I can check and see that this is the only fault or if new ones show up. "Keep an eye on it," as the small shop said.
Because of spending a handful of years as a production technician in an electronics manufacturer (or two), I have experience with troubleshooting intermittent problems. So when anyone tells me they've fixed an intermittent I wonder if they fixed it or merely made it more intermittent. I'll feel comfortable that this "won't start" problem is gone after maybe a thousand successful starts. That'll take years so I'm still at the point of deciding whether or not I'm looking for a car. Divemedic's piece yesterday on how so many new cars are going to a subscription model for too many things has convinced me not to go look for a new car, although I really wasn't seriously thinking of it. But charging me to put an air conditioner in my car and then $20/month to use it - on top of extra gas (if it really needs extra gas)? YHGTBSM. FYATHYRIO.
Nice post and information. And exactly why I'm keeping my '04 CRV for as long as possible. It was encouraging to hear from a service manager that Honda has a tendency to find a good solution to problem/design and then just keep using it as long as they can in their newer models. I suppose that's what makes them (and Toyota) so reliable.
ReplyDeleteThat engine computer could have been designed so that you could plug in a VGA monitor and USB keyboard from any thrift store, to see an error message like: 'I was at line x in file y, I tried to do this and received this error, now I'm stopping because I can't proceed. Type r to reboot or d to enter the debugger.'. Since the Explorer is so popular, perhaps there exists an aftermarket engine computer like this?
ReplyDeleteI have decided that even if I can afford to buy a new vehicle I will not get one with any monthly subscription fees, Heck I even avoid the subscription satellite radio services. The idea of monthly subscriptions for things like air conditioning or navigation seems like a "Bud Lite" decision on the part of the manufacturers marketing department.
ReplyDeleteA friend's car was showing the same gas tank pressure error message. He bought new gas cap and the problem went away.
ReplyDeleteI guess I'm old enough to remember when the most complicated piece of electronics (in American-made cars) was the distributor cap or the foot switch for the brights or the radio - your choice.
ReplyDeleteHave we really progressed?
As far as emissions and gas mileage and durability, we have indeed. But complexity breeds a whole raft of problems. KISS has been and will always be the goal of a good piece of engineering, unfortunately "creeping featuritis" abounds. I want a car that starts, stops, and drives from Point A to Point B with a minimum of copst, fuss, and bother.
DeleteMy '57 Chebbie kinda epitomized this. The entire wiring harness is STILL in my head, complete with wire color codes! That's not a feature, it's because it's a simple system. It does what it should.
My '03 Jeep Grand Cherokede decided to drop a valve seat, a common problem in the 4.7L engine after about 100-120K miles. Reworked the heads, replaced all the timing gear, oil pump, anything that I could reach except for the short block. Bolted it together, started it up, ran fine - for 20 seconds. It will start flawlessly, idle down, then stutters/sputters for a few seconds and recovers. Repeats. NO CODES thrown. Put it on a really good SNAP-ON OBDII analyzer and it shows the injector timing abruptly goesd form 3-4msec to 8-12 and even 15 msec. ALL the sensors look good, replaed the MAP sensor, checked the COPs and the injectors have all been overhauled and checked. SOMEthing is telling the computer that the mixture needs to be richer, but WHAT?? I've put 3 - count 'em, 3 - ECUs in this, same story.
This is a difficult one to troubleshoot, I'll find it yet, but just imagine if it's one of the newer CANbus cars!!
Kiss, KISS, KISS you Detroit morons!! If I can put a Megasquirt on a 1985 Chebbie truck engine, YOU can design a modern car that doesn't need a gazillion-dollar troubleshooting system to fix it!
Maybe start shopping for a 90's era car that doesn't have all the electronical gizmos.
ReplyDeleteSee my above comment - if I need more gizmos I'll bolt 'em on. My Magellan GPS works in all my cars, just unstick the suction cup and transfer it to where I need it!
DeleteSubscriptions, my ass!!
We keep a main car that is fully paid and under warranty, BUT we also keep an old DIY-grade car as a backup.
ReplyDeleteAvoid anything BEV or HEV even, as they are a pain in the backside and in the end expensive & inconvenient.
On contemporary complex cars, if a particular cars starts sucking money and you are not able to self-perform its repairs, it is time to get rid of that particular vehicle.
Otherwise it will attach itself to your wallet like a leach and suck enough truly "lost money" that you keep reinvesting into an unreliable set of wheels.
Don't over invest in lost causes. (Been there and have the tee shirt).
I'll keep my '03 Jeep, my 1985 Beaver Motor Coach, and my 1989 Taurus SHO, thankkewveddymuch! MUCH cheaper than getting a newer car - and I won't even consider a NEW car, as I refuse to buy a vehicle that loses 1/4 to 1/3 its value when driven off the lot!
DeleteFinding parts is fun, though.
Isn't pre-1975 - before the ECU/EMU became the thing - that is favored for long term durability?
DeleteMost vehicles over 10 years old start to see parts-availability problems come up, that is until they become "special interest" where additional sources get interested in supplying parts.
There are some exceptions to the mid-70's watershed, as certain European cars we built under rules-exceptions to the late 1980's. Some military intended light trucks may have delayed the ECU/EMU even longer.
A lot depends on how many miles you put on your vehicle, as long term ownership becomes less daunting if you are not faced with rebuilding worn-out vehicles.
As for new vehicle depreciation, that becomes more a personal pocketbook issue. In a business world (which can include running a farm or other self employed businesses, maybe) things favor a new vehicle.
On a personal basis, it is only if you expect to sell-trade the car in the first 4-5 years that depreciation becomes a serious factor. If you are one who keeps a vehicle until it is truly worn out, say perhaps 25 years or longer, the benefits of not buying someone else's troubles in a used car may pay off.
Every car salesman tells you that the used car is peachy, never abused, and driven on only sunny Sundays at low speeds. What a load of rubbish, as most of us run their vehicles hard and trade it in when it starts becoming unreliable/shabby/expensive.
Another big factor is if you can work on an older car yourself, or if you can't (or don't have the time.)
Disclosure - my daily was bought new as a business car, my yard pickup is a minty (but not museum) 1960's truck.
My 01 GMC Sierra and 97 K2500 Suburban look better and better every time I read a post like this.
ReplyDeleteThe day some dealer tries to charge me for the use of purchased components in my car is the day I unveil my $3000/mo. subscription plan, wherein they decide whether to cancel that idea on the spot, or have to buy all new plate glass windows for the dealership every month, and replace all the cars on the lot every other month to make up for the ones that spontaneously combusted overnight.
ReplyDeleteI like my odds.
"Hey, this is a really nice car dealership you got here. It would be tragic if something terrible happened to it 4 days out of 7 until your impending bankruptcy..."