That's statistician talk for 3 standard deviations, but here I'm using it in the "redneck statistics" (RNS) sense where 3 sigma doesn't mean it's within the "99.7% of values in a normal distribution that are within three standard deviations of the mean." It means "nowhere near normal".
On Monday, I had a dentist appointment for a regular cleaning and annual
x-rays. For years, I've made it a point to leave 20 minutes ahead
of the appointment because that typically gets me to the office 7 to 10
minutes early with our typical traffic. The car had been sitting in the
driveway, as usual, since Thursday's grocery shopping trip, but unlike any
time in years on Monday it wouldn't start. I switched to Mrs.
Graybeard's car and got there on time.
The car is a 2009 Ford Explorer (SUV) which is almost always referred to as an Exploder or simply "the Sploder." I bought this in 2012, to replace a 2005 Toyota Matrix that might have been the best car I've owned - in terms of "just get in, start it and go where you need to go." Stone cold reliable. I don't know if the Sploder is fully 16 years old, I kinda recall it was first bought in November of '09 so it's not 16 yet. Since I retired at the end of '15, the mileage I put on the car has almost ceased to be a consideration. In a typical week, I put around 10 miles on the car.
I have a small jump starter, but when I opened the hood to see if I could jump it, I was shocked to find a mess.
The deposit piled around the positive terminal is corrosion, specifically
copper sulfate, because the two ingredients are right there looking to combine
- copper in the wire and sulfur in the sulfuric acid in the battery.
Remember how I said I put about 10 miles a week on the car? The last
time I'm relatively sure I checked the battery would have been before going on
a cross Florida trip to my nephew's house at the end of January, and the
copper sulfate wasn't there. Still, that doesn't tell me a thing
about when it formed, just that it wasn't there around three months ago.
I mean I can't know if it formed in the last week or if it built up slowly
over months.
I was uncomfortable with trying to jump start the Sploder until I could clean that up
properly, but wanted to see what the engine sounded like if I tried to start
it. I turned the key and it started to crank but then stopped. No
clicking, no nothing. Turned the key again, it started to crank, and the
longer I held the switch closed, the faster it cranked until the engine
started. I let the engine run for 10 or 15 minutes, then turned it
off. It restarted easily. This was Monday afternoon. Earlier
in the day, I called the Ford dealer thinking I had bought the battery from
them. They said they'd call me back but never did.
On Tuesday morning I called them and made an appointment to check it out. After I grabbed this picture, I brushed that off (it was powder/small crystals) into a "dustpan" (plastic box), cleaned the top of the battery and then went to check the water. I would have bet the three cells closest to the positive terminal, or just the closest one, would have been low - and would have lost the bet. All six looked fine. I saw nothing that looked like a crack or hole that could have led to that pile of crystals. After some other checks and some running around, the engine had been off for 20 minutes and I went to restart it. Started right up without hesitation.
I've been down the "NTF" (no trouble found) road with repair shops a few times too many, so I cancelled the appointment at the service shop. I figured I'd start it up again closer to evening. It acted more like Monday afternoon's start, where holding the key seemed to make it go from cranking slowly to faster, to starting. I took the car for a test drive, and the only issue after starting it was that the Exploder has a handful of things it displays for the driver and those got wiped out of memory.
It's now Wednesday morning. I wanted to take a magnifying glass out to look for cracks or holes on the top of the battery so I waited until the sun was fully "on." I found nothing. I decided to bring it up to a small tire shop/repair shop we've used many times over the years. While I know I've posted about it before, I'm sure nobody remembers off the the top of their head that I have an umbilical hernia that needs to be fixed (which might even be "Real Soon Now") and I don't think I should (or even could) sling a full sized lead-acid battery around.
The Sploder behaved like Wednesday, and most times since Monday afternoon. It quit trying to turn over at first, then turned slowly, speeding until it started. Yes, the miles I had driven the day before reset to zero, and the gas mileage reset to zero but I was able to drive it up the nearby shop. In a couple of hours, they told me the only thing actually out of spec was the battery and I bought a replacement. They told me the alternator wasn't capable of its full spec but it was still in the acceptable range.
So Thursday, it was back to normal. The Sploder started routinely for
our weekly shopping trip, and has been fine. So far, so good.
In my long experience, an alternator not quite up to spec will thrash a battery to death rather quickly.
ReplyDeleteYou might want to see about the replacement costs of said alternator before it destroys the brand new battery.
And did the shop test the alternator under load? I had an alternator that went bad, took it to several places and they all said alternator was good, ended up replacing a whole bunch of things and still didn't work right. Took the alternator to a specialty shop and they tested it not-under-load and under-load and, lo and behold, the alternator was fine until it was under load.
I believe it was tested under load because they told me how many amps it's rated for and how many it delivered (I recall 700 and 250, FWIW). They said it wasn't under the red line at the bottom so it was considered OK.
DeleteYou may want to consider getting a trickle charger - driving short local trips (with AC on, etc) may not recharge the battery fully. If you park outdoors they make little solar chargers (harbor freight has one) that are about 1.5W. If you park in a garage you may need to get a trickle charger. I have used both in situations where I would not drive a vehicle in a month or two, and modern ( less than 20 years old) cars with lots of electronics have a fair sized parasitic draw.
ReplyDeleteART
Interesting idea. The only chargers I have now run on wall power (AC).
DeleteI suppose a long "Sunday drive" would do the same thing.
My mom died the day after last Christmas from complications of NOT getting her 20 yr old hernia fixed. Please take that seriously. Once things went wrong for her, there was nothing that could be done to fix things anymore, and she passed after a week and a half in the ICU.
ReplyDeleteA lot of that depends on what kind of hernia you have, and my GP says he's never seen anything bad happen with the kind I have (umbilical). I'm just tired of it getting in the way of life. I thought the surgeon's office said to expect to be called in two weeks ago, so I guess it's time to call them and make sure I didn't get lost in their computer.
DeleteNorth of you in Florida, AAA will bring and sell a battery to you, if you call them before 6pm. This may save logistics if it happens when it's not in your driveway. I'm sure there's a date code on that battery sticker, but I can't decode it. Suggest replacing your battery every three years in Florida, and also getting Absorbed Glass Mat.
ReplyDeleteI remember buying a ring made of who-knows-what from an auto shop, Placing it on the pole of the battery drastically slowed down the crud growth. Do they still make those?
ReplyDeleteYes, they do. And almost any auto parts store stocks them, at least here in Florida.
DeleteCRC also makes battery terminal protector:
https://www.crcindustries.com/battery-terminal-protector-7-5-wt-oz-281/
which works well.
Another good tip, thanks! I remember those things that prevented fouling. Some good old white grease helped that, too.
DeleteNOCO NCP2 is a grease that you put on the terminals and any associated areas that might corrode. It is excellent stuff, and all of these corrosion problems will disappear if you use it.
DeleteI'm a committed GM owner and I would recommend staying away from AC Delco batteries. I've never gotten one that didn't leak around one of the posts.
ReplyDeleteI had to replace the (+) cable and a starter thanks to leakage and the acid wicking down the cable.
Thanks for that. I had no idea. I've had Delco batteries before that never looked like this one, so maybe "luck of the draw". It was pretty much at the end of its life just by years, too - I got the old one in '21.
DeleteThe most obvious problem with the 15 year old Sploder is the plastic is disintegrating everywhere. I fully expect to walk out one day and find a pile of plastic chips with a bunch of metal pieces embedded in it.
I use baking soda to look for leaking acid. It has the added benefit that if it finds any and bubbles, it also is neutralizing it.
DeleteYou hit on a most pertinent thing about maintaining and giving some lovin to treasured older vehicles, lot of merit and good household economic reasons here. I think one almost can not quantify all of them, Sig.
ReplyDeleteRun older vehicles as you, find batteries are always a paramount part of maintaining our car and trucks, (keep a spare strapped into a secondary battery tray, have a separate wire from the alternator, with a 80amp diode, to keep it separate in the charging circuit, its been an excellent mod, beyond praise, use a knife blade switch to activate it when the main battery is not up to snuff ), and nothing is better than a high capacity new battery, in terms of reliable reliability, yeah that sounds redundant, but its a true way of looking at things old vehicle wise. My wife's Jeep Compass is very battery sensitive, its the nicest vehicle we have owned, and parts are decently priced, my main ride is a 1989 K 2500 super duty, its a one ton in 3/4 ton guise. Bought it in 1995, put a crate motor in it, a 5 speed manual from an early 12 valve Dodge Cummins diesel, had to get a particular bell housing from Chevy dealer, an input adapter for the transfer case, fit great, even the drive shaft, gratefully did not need shortening.
Its an old welder rig I used for two decades, now its a grocery getter and for filling a 350 gal stock tank down at a local spring, use it for watering the pigs. That things heavy, have to shift into low range and granny gear to get up out of the hollow the spring sits down in, but its superb water, reason alone to keep the "beast" running well. Plumbed together a tap up on the hill on corner of the house, so worst to worst we can have gravity fed spring water inside the house. Its pretty decent head pressure, with the tank sitting in the truck bed, (been wanting to build a concrete block roof eater cistern, 6x6x14 foot high, think thats near 2600-2800 gals, enough for the wife and I, another reason to keep that beast running, haul block, bagged cement and mortar). Plus hauling fire wood is a constant, easily handles half a cord of green wood, gets onto the overload leafs on the rear axle. All in all, I figure the intrinsic value of our older vehicles far exceeds their street value, and to replace them be beyond our means today, then added costs of insurance and registration, property tax etc. So in those terms, the basic maintenance costs, because I do all our mechanic-ing, even the beasts 14 mpg, it is way less dinero than brandy new or even late used replacements.
Here's to beloved, or hated even, older vehicles, may they always be reliable, pragmatic, and valuable intrinsic investments.They just need them some "radar love."
Chassis grounds are so often overlooked. They are very important. The alternator may test fine, but if it's not grounded well, it's not able to do its job. The ground on the battery's chassis connection, too.
ReplyDeleteI've wondered why corrosion builds up on one post and not the other. The same Stuff is on both sides of the battery. Copper and sulfuric fumes ,hydrogen, too.
Corroded connections are resistive. Resistance creates heat,which increases resistance. A battery terminal specific wire brush costs under five bucks. Check the end of the cables. If they are green up inside that needs dealt with. The replacement terminal is a common approach, because it's quick, cheap and easy. They are also high maintenance. But they allow you to put off replacing the cables.
Copper sulfate? I hope you saved it. Once you could buy the stuff to put into drains where it would kill the roots of any plants trying to grow into them. Last time I looked it wasn't available - harmful to the environment or some such. Of course the greenies who pushed that through wouldn't come to your house to clean up the sewage from the blockage and pay to roto-root your drain line.
ReplyDeleteThere's no such thing as an "AC Delco" battery now. There are 3 main manufacturers, and it's a safe bet that your battery was made by Johnson. I don't remember who the other 2 are - Exide, I think, is one. Yes, you'd be right to say that Johnson, et. al., will manufacture to a spec provided by the vendor, but a great number of automotive batteries are all the same, in terms of build quality.
ReplyDeleteIf your battery was at least 5 years old, then it was just time for it to go. Sure, it's actually more complicated, in terms of charge cycles, depth of discharge, and other factors, but 5 years is a good number for most cases. I'm actually surprised to see cell caps, so I really wonder how old that battery was.
I've used those felt washers for at least 3 batteries, with never any sulfide buildup. It's actually reasonable to question whether they're useful for a sealed battery, but they're so cheap, why not? The other thing (another redundancy) is to coat the terminals with grease, as this will seal them from contact with the acid. There's also battery terminal sealant spray, which is harder to clean off than grease, but IIRC De-Oxit takes it off, but also sandpaper.
Ditto on the comments re. lack of charging, due to limited use. You have a constant drain - tiny though it is. Without doing measurements, no way to tell depth of discharge here, but that is your main enemy, plus number of charge cycles, for typical automotive lead-acid battery use. Yes, heat extremes, especially high temperatures, play their part.
As long as I'm writing... your new battery should have a date sticker, which is for the last charge, not manufacture. This is OK. Vendors should be selling units on a FIFO basis, based on charge date. Sitting on a shelf at full charge for 6 months has zero effect, for practical purposes, on the use life of a lead-acid battery, so vendors pull, recharge, and re-shelve in a continuous rotation. IIRC, at O'Reilly, a battery gets pulled and recycled at the 4th rotation. So, your 5-year clock for replacement starts at the date sticker, even if the mfr date is 2 years ago.
I'm curious what Phil and DrJim have to say about this, if they stop by.
When I was stationed in Guam, 85-86, I had a $500, 1979 Plymouth Volare` "Guam Bomb" that started the same way as the 'sploder. Every morning hold the key on and it was like a teenager waking up in the morning. The idiot lights would start glow, the buzzer would go from a slow buzz to the annoying squeel, starter solenoid would kick and start would slowly start turning the engine over and she would come life. The rest of the day she would start right up. Then go through the same routine the next morning. Sold it for $500 when I left to another sailor.
ReplyDeleteAfter I drive my truck I hook it to a trickle charger. This will extend the life of your battery. I have the original batteries in my 2016 F350. My Harley that I bought in 05 had it's third battery installed last year. Motorcycle batteries usually last about 3 years and I am averaging 9 years.
ReplyDeleteAha! I found the real cause.
ReplyDelete"I had a dentist appointment for a regular cleaning and annual x-rays."
That'll do it every time! (heh!)
You need to clean and grease the terminals. Get a terminal cleaning brush from and auto store. Clean the posts, and the INSIDE of the terminals, and ten put them back on the battery with some grease. Vaseline works great, as does good old white lithium grease. The seal between that post and the cells may have degraded, allowing the H2SO4 to start weeping out.
ReplyDelete