Anybody been to any hamfests lately?
There's a thread going around on public media like YouTube that paints a dim picture of the market for used gear, saying that prices have fallen off dramatically for popular classic radios from the last century. We haven't been to a hamfest in a couple of years, and our local fest is coming up in a couple of months, so I'm thinking about trying to find new homes for some of my old books or gear.
That video, by Australian ham VK3USA, starts out with lots of video clips of old Collins Radios and talks about the situation from the creator's viewpoint. He points out that he's of a much younger age than us old guys who were enchanted by those radios - he says he just turned 40. His conclusion is that ham radio is going through a phase where the older guys who idolized that gear are aging out of the hobby and the younger guys aren't as dedicated to these older radios.
That certainly seems like it could be a driving force. There is a tendency for older folks to move to smaller or assisted-living places that might be especially bad for hams. Places where they aren't able to put a station on the air, or they can use small receiver but couldn't put up an outdoor antenna.
Another video by The History Archive, doesn't look at things the same way as that previous one. He talks about the economic pressures brought on by things like the Chinese Baofeng UV-5R radios that slashed prices incredibly, the advent of software defined radios and software defined modes like the WSJT modes I've talked about often. Those impact prices, too, by shifting the demands from buyers. Then there were new aspects to the ham hobby itself, with the introduction of Parks On The Air and Summits On The Air (SOTA & POTA) and more. The summary was that the world shifted in many ways all in the same few years.
Has anybody seen this happening or not in their local American hamfests?
A big concern of mine is books, and Virtual Mirage's post on the End of Books brought this topic higher in priority. In front of me are two 7’ tall by 3’ wide bookcases - the one on my left is mostly full of technical books on radio circuit and systems design as well as programming in various languages like Delphi, MathCAD, HTML, and MATLAB. The bookcase on my right has a whole shelf or two on woodworking, another one or two shelves on boating and fishing. Another two shelves contain Bibles and study books about those Bibles. I can’t tell you the last time I’ve looked at any one of those hundreds of books. And this is just one room. In the next room over it's the same story of two practically ceiling to floor bookcases – just different subjects. And there are more bookshelves in other rooms. I think books actually outnumber insects in the house, and maybe even bacteria.
It's possible hams or other engineers would want some of the books on my left-hand bookshelf but if I had to ship them cross country, postage would be a concern.
So what say you all? Any experience with this? Opinions? Stale jokes? I'm not particularly ready to empty out the station and put it all for sale at the hamfest, but part of the effort of keeping the house cleaned and easier to deal with is to get rid of things that we just don't use much anymore. Besides, we all check out sooner or later and less crap makes it easier and better on whoever cleans up after we're gone.
The Collins KWM-2, an early version of their very succssful HF SSB transceiver. Image credit: Rigpix
No, it's not mine, but I can't find a nice pic of mine. If I do, I'll replace
this.
At my QTH, a dozen or so years ago, there were 6 hamfests a year, within reasonable driving distance, all of them packed. But attendance started declining, even before Covid. I figure it's just part of the overall changes in the hobby, and society in general. More and more stuff is happening online. I'm guessing that there's less interest in vintage radios, probably in part due to there being less tech knowledge needed to be part of the hobby. I think old tech is cool, but I'd still rather run a new rig. Yeah, if I were a EE, and had the means, I'd enjoy restoring old tube gear, and I'd probably use it a little, just to say I did. But modern stuff, with really good noise reductions, and waterfall displays - well, they're just better.
ReplyDeleteGotta run - I'm still working for a living.
- jed
The advantage of the old tube gear is that it's incredibly easy to work on - compared to the modern rigs with surface mount parts. While a lot of rigs from the mid-'60s till around Y2K had everything except the PA finals on circuit boards, those are still easier to work on than something from the last 20 years or so. The receiver parts are still have leads.
DeleteThe second video does a pretty good job on explaining those "contributing factors" to the used market shutting down but doesn't mention the tech in particular. Today, though, if you're not looking for the receiver that leads in something like "spurious free dynamic range," you can get a very adequate HF receiver for not much more than a 40 or $50 Raspberry Pi.
I never played with those Baofeng UV-5Rs, but I know they're almost ridiculously low prices. Amazon has them at TWO for $33. I'm mentally stuck thinking a 2m/440 HT is around $200, not 16.
Ooop.... "The receiver parts are still have leads." should not have had the word "are" in there. "The receiver parts still have leads." (More coffee!!)
DeleteI've looked at lots of low-price HF rigs, going back to the Tuna Can Kits. I also followed Bob Heil's pine board series. My Achilles heel is noise. Without good NR, I can't listen for more than about 10 minutes, at home. Even with the NR available on the FT-100D, listening fatigue got bad pretty quickly. I've had some misadventures going portable, but each time I improve the kit. The jury is still out on that. From what I've heard, on YouTube, audio quality on those inexpensive HF rigs is pretty poor, so my interest isn't very high. I should've gotten into the hobby before hearing loss and tinnitus. And digital modes hold no appeal for me.
DeleteRe. HTs. I have 5, but two of those are Anytone DMR jobs, and have issues. I got the Baofeng quite a while ago, because I figured I should have a 2nd dual bander, and a guy at a hamfest threw in a large battery and a Kenwood hand mic, all for what the mic by itself would cost. My "go to" HT today would still be the FT-60, for working any events or anything important.
- jed
The last hamfest I went to consisted of a bunch of old guys all downsizing and selling their stuff. Nobody was buying. I made pity buy of a 2m antenna (paying more than asking because the price was sadly low) from a rare young guy who was getting married in a month. I hope he finds a hobby with a future to enoy with his new XYL.
ReplyDeleteYour story is pretty much the first guy's (VK3USA's) story - and guys not being able to downsize and get what they think the radio is worth relates to the second story. Comparing older ones to modern rigs that cost less for the same features is messing up minds.
DeleteI have one HT - it does more than the Baofeng $16.50 HTs and I don't even remember what it cost. To compare, though, if I was looking for an HT and the choice was the two most popular bands for $16.50 versus one with two other bands - that I don't even know are used where I live - for 12 times the price? I'd probably just get the $16.50 one.
I worked for Rockwell-Collins in their SATCOM department. At the home office they had working transceivers of all previous models. It was impressive.
ReplyDeleteRockwell Collins went DEI and it only took 4 years for them to go under.
Sad to say the same here in the northeast. All us old farts are going the way of the dinosaurs. Local Hamfest last year was a junk sale...low priced flashlights, stupid toys, etc. And no more VE sessions! Guess it's all online now (I have been a VE for 18 years)
ReplyDeleteI went to Orlando Hamcation this year and bought a bunch of stuff. Very satisfied. Will probably attend the next Raleigh Rarsfest and maybe Orlando again next year.
ReplyDeleteOrlando is one of our regular fests we attend but didn't go this year. It's rather big, I think they're saying it's the second biggest in the country, and an hour drive so easy to get to.
DeleteI've been selling in the swap meet area (parking lot) of our Houston area hamfest since I got my license... and I've had to renew once. And yet, I skipped this year. I wasn't feeling excited about it, had a minor scheduling conflict, and hadn't picked up any new gear to sell since last year.
ReplyDeleteI buy cheap, so I sell cheap, and I was doing good business. Still, it's a long day to gross $1200, with net about half that. Talking with everyone is the part I like the best, and I have always had a bunch of buyers that were very happy to buy from me. (again, I'm trying HARD to sell the stuff and not squeeze out every penny.)
I also try to be the 'old school hamfest swapmeet guy' with boxes of parts, old radios, piles of antennas, etc, and not chinese crap new in box, or stuff you can get at retail now.
And I stay to the published end of the day, and I almost always have a late arrival who is crazy happy that I'm still there. I've had great conversations with more than one of those guys as I spent a couple hours packing up and selling to them.
-------------
I love books, but IDK if anyone but me is still buying them. I love solid state radios and gear that is early enough that you can still work on it, but the problem with that era of gear is the caps failing and taking out whole boards. With people having less time in their 'hobby budget' I suspect they will buy gear that is already working so they can get right to the 'doing the hobby' part of things, rather than the 'fixing the gear' part.
I'm already accumulating new stuff to sell and planning on going next year, so there will be at least one guy selling loads of interesting stuff, to interesting people.
nick
Thanks for that - it's a nice piece of news and a good story.
DeleteSome of the books I have are old originals or reprints done in limited numbers. A couple are old library books. Some I had to search for over a few years. Maybe somebody somewhere would pay postage. I'd hate to leave them for the recycling truck.
Been a while building, and I've posted about it - some samples:
ReplyDeletehttps://k9zw.wordpress.com/2023/12/20/sunk-money-boat-anchors-maybe-not-buoyant-investments/
https://k9zw.wordpress.com/2023/05/02/truly-boat-anchors-younger-hams-very-selective-with-vintage-gear/
https://k9zw.wordpress.com/2025/12/02/boat-anchor-realities/
https://k9zw.wordpress.com/2020/04/20/the-dawn-of-a-new-era-how-after-the-chicom-plague-we-will-never-go-back-again-part-5-full-ham-edition/ (see the boat anchor section)
This not a single axis change. Demographics, Repair talent dearth, Spare Parts dry-up, Market Performance ROI Realities, Change in esteemed nostalgia eras, IoT ready gear displacement, uneven Elmering, Evolved operating habits, Marketing that new gear is a status, lack of room (thinking those big AM transmitters), differing builders interest, and so on....
The best vintage will retain some interest, the middling to economy end are likely to end up stored or chucked.
Some will return to periods of new high interest.
Take say E-Type Jags - neat, then when the market moved on they were considered rubbish trading for little, and now in the spot light with great examples exceeding $300k and likely being trailered rather than driven.
Vintage musical instruments have had their similar cycles, vintage film cameras became almost give away items and now the best are being collected (by youngsters who parents are younger than that Leica they just shelled out serious coin for.)
Hamfests themselves are where the best ones are doing just fine from an attendee point (I enjoyed this years Xenia Hamvention) and the slap dash chuch fellowship hall rented out for the day types maybe not so much - but those small ones never really were much except in our memories.
There are some really cool things happening - YOTA programs, RIB developments, and that in my case I can do with an 18lb box and a laptop what tool truckloads of gear 45 years ago when my unit deployed, well that is truly amazing.
Because the current fad is "non contact QSOs" (the soulless FT8/4/x stuff) hams don't build as much curiosity about what the other person is like? At least that is my take, as it seems the more "analogue" the operating habits, the more interested that ham is in doing eye-ball QSOs.
73
Steve
K9ZW
The last Hamfests I went to were in the 70’s, the Miami Hamfest and the smaller Motorola Hamrest in Ft Lauderdale. Since then Ebay fills most of my radio surplus and test equipment needs, most of which are wants and not needs. I have a 2 car garage filled with gear on my list of to “repair one day.”
ReplyDeleteTektronix Scopes- how many do you want ?
I avoid attending Orlando’s Hamfest as I would likely have to rent a 5 ton truck to haul the load home where I lack the room to add one more box of bolts.
Dave
KO4AMB