Sunday, March 9, 2025

Going After the Junk Science

Tonight’s ramble is going to be my take on the MAHA movement.  My view is heavily influenced by the years (in the early 1970s) when I studied biochemistry through my junior year of college.  I imagine some people will throw that out as being too “establishment,” but I think there are good things to talk about and ideas to spread around down this road.

The first thing I stumbled across that made me pay attention to RFK Jr. was him saying that in the past, autism struck something like 1 in 10,000 kids while today it’s 1 in 34.  Put another way, it has gone from a 0.0001 portion (0.01% of kids) to (1/34 or 0.0294 (2.94%)  At almost 300 times the previous percentage, that’s a monstrous increase and it really needs to be investigated.  

The problem is that we don’t know, as proven by any real science, why this has happened.  Some people will say vaccinations, but we have just as much proof of that as we do that it was chem trails or that chem trails are simply jet engine exhaust, or anything else.  So how do we establish a cause with as little doubt as we can?  How do we prove if one specific thing causes an effect? 

As I quipped the other day, junk science is a favorite topic of mine, but we have enough now.  We don't need to add volumes more junk in the effort to improve the many widely quoted statistics. 

The gold standard way to really prove causation is double-blinded, randomized, controlled trials (I’ll just call them RCTs because that seems to be common) – and potentially a LOT of those RCTs.  The golden rule here is the bigger the population being experimented on the better.  That makes these sorts of studies hard to do, take a long time, and burn dumpsters full of money.

So what are RCTs?  A controlled trial is an experiment with two groups: the experimental group that gets the thing being tested and a second group called the control that gets something expected to have no effect at all, usually called a placebo.  (While many people envision something like a sugar pill, sugar clearly has effects on some things so the placebo has to carefully chosen – a placebo for an injection might be “normal saline” or saltwater.)  Randomized means that a group chosen to be used in the study is chosen to be as identical as possible, and exactly which group a subject goes into (experimental or control) is chosen randomly.  Blinding a study means either the subject or the experimenter that gives them their treatment knows which group they’re in; double-blinding means that neither the subject getting the treatment or the person giving them the treatment can know if it’s the real treatment or the placebo. 

I hope you’re seeing a big problem here.  Let’s say we want to find if giving a particular vaccination causes autism.  We need two big groups – the bigger the better – to experiment on.  Then we have to monitor them for however long we think it takes to be able to say “if they haven’t gone autistic by now, they’re not going to.”  How long?  Here’s where the question might not be as long as it could be for other things.  Maybe there’s evidence that if they don’t start showing signs in the first couple months they never do; maybe it’s more like if they don’t show signs in five years they won’t, and maybe it’s 10 years or fully adults.

Now it gets harder to run the tests.  Nobody gets one vaccination; today’s kids get larger numbers than even 30 years ago.  In the RCTs, we can test whether getting two specific vaccines staggered in time however the protocols assign them can cause the autism.  They can’t get any other vaccines or anything the control group doesn’t get.  We need more huge groups to experiment on.  

And it gets even harder; astronomically harder.  In probability and statistics classes they cover how to compute how many possible combinations there are.  It’s worse than this, but let’s assume kids get 15 vaccines and we want to test every combination of two out of the 15 in an RCT.  How many RCTs does it take?

That shows that to test 15 vaccines 2 at a time, takes 105 RCTs.  That would be like 1 vs 2, 1 v 3, up to 1 vs 15 then 2 vs every other, 3 vs every other and so on.  If it’s 30 vaccines, twice that “N” in the calculated number, that 105 jumps to 435.  The last time I did any research on this question, the results were that there have never been any tests like even one of these about interactions between combinations of vaccines, but it has been some years since I looked. 

The shear number and cost of those tests could be one of the reasons it has never been done, however just vaccinating everyone instead of testing it rigorously and carefully should not be the way to approach this.  

This is one of the reasons why science is in such deep trouble these days.  Now think of a harder thing to do an RCT on: dietary guidance.  An example some people might be interested in would be something along the lines of “if I eat something they say is bad for me once a week, let’s say bacon, is that going to shorten my life compared to never eating it.”  To do a rigorous RCT, you’d need to get a couple of groups of lots of people that are genetically similar (to rule out effects from that) and study them from childhood throughout their entire lives.  These two groups would need to eat exactly the same thing as each other at every meal for their entire lives before a conclusion could be reached.  How could they be sure it was that one food unless a number in the test group (that ate the food being tested) died that was statistically higher than the number in the control group? 

This experiment is unethical, to say the least.  The experimenters would have to commit a group of children to being experimented on for their entire lives – long before they could make that decision.  Whoever is paying for the test would have to pay for every single meal for both groups for up to a hundred years.  Kids growing up in either group would have to be isolated.  No going out to meals with friends, no just going out for a late night pizza or any sort of “social eating.”  Not to mention not having a conclusion until long past everyone associated with starting the experiment has passed away.

So what are the alternatives to doing a lifelong RCT?  The approach appears to be to study some number of people who get the treatment and then see if the number is close enough to the general population’s incidence of early death (or whatever they’re interested in).  This is relatively easy; the numbers of people are smaller, they aren’t really subjected to getting a test substance, and they don’t need to be housed separately or cared for differently.  In the case of eating the bacon, we’ll give a group of people forms to record what they eat and when.  The typical way of doing this a questionnaire that’s filled out in retrospect, called a Food-Frequency Questionnaire or FFQ.   It’s not quite the same as someone asking, “what did you have for lunch on March 10, 2023?” two years after the fact, but it’s close.  In processing data from the FFQs, the software could separate out those who claimed to have eaten bacon from those who didn’t claim to and see if their rates of death correlated with the general population. 

As I’ve said over and over, it then becomes a matter of correlations, what I call “he-who” studies: he-who eats 3 ounces of bacon/day correlates with the group that lived the expected lifespan, or lived longer or shorter.  To stretch the example to absurdity, let’s say in the past 50 years, life expectancy in the US has gone up.  Anything that has also increased, or has become more common in the same time range can be correlated; we could say that since global temperature has gone up, global warming is extending lifespans.  The standard method of testing whether that correlation is good enough to claim possible causation is to compare the rate of change (slopes) of the two things.  If they’re within a certain range (typically 5%) the correlation is considered good enough to rule out agreement by random chance.  It’s simply not robust enough, IMO. 

Do you see the immediate problem here?  If autism had increased dramatically at the same time that the number of vaccines increased dramatically, as it did, that's automatically a correlation.  One which could mean exactly nothing.

I've mentioned John P. A. Ioannidis on my pages many times before.  He's the author of what’s widely quoted as one of the most downloaded papers in history, “Why Most Published Research Findings are False,” in which he presents data that as much as 70% of published science is wrong.  One of the features of that document is a list of his ROTs (Rules of Thumb) for what makes papers more likely to be good or bad.  Allow me to post two of them here; I think they're relevant:

Corollary 5: The greater the financial and other interests and prejudices in a scientific field, the less likely the research findings are to be true. 

Corollary 6: The hotter a scientific field (with more scientific teams involved), the less likely the research findings are to be true.

Both of those seem to explain a lot of "newspaper reported science" perfectly.



19 comments:

  1. I wonder if maybe the rate of autism hasn't actually increased, we've just started labeling more people as autistic. Maybe in the bad old days, back when most people hadn't heard of it, if someone was a little weird, people just decided that was just the way they were and got on with their lives. Or maybe it's not the vaccines, maybe today's toddlers don't get enough dirt in their diet. I do wonder whether we really need all the vaccines that are getting passed out these days.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Spoke to a retired school psychologist regarding the increase in autism. His conclusion was that the school gets money for every diagnosis. Therefore we get a lot more diagnoses.

      Delete
    2. I've wondered if anyone has studied the rates of autism in children with doting, or helicopter parents vs uninvolved parents (feral children). It seems that a kid will milk any situation that will get him the most attention.

      Delete
  2. Concur with Chuck but the other thing about the trials is that the scientists and their minions have now proven completely unworthy of trust. I would not accept results from our scientists or medical community without vast skepticism which they and only they can work to reduce. They blew it completely with Covid and yet it seems most still stand by the idiocy of what they all claimed from beginning to end.

    ReplyDelete
  3. To riff off of what Chuck P said, it may be that autism isn't more prevalent, it's just better detected and diagnosed.

    Then there are all the environmental differences between 'back then' and 'recent times.' That also link to other increases in other ailments like allergies and such. We live in a filtered, air controlled environment, for the most part. We sit in air conditioned cars, live in air filtered homes and work places, go to church or shop in air handled closed spaces. The more the air is controlled, the more we stay inside, the more allergies and other issues are increasing.

    It's something that nobody really talks about. I grew up with almost life-ending allergies. For 2-3 weeks in the spring and fall I'd be out on my arse at home coughing up lung butter and drowning in snot. Yet I played outside as much as possible. And when I did get allergy shots, at the end the allergy doc basically told me that hiding from allergens was going to totally invalidate any and all shots that I got.

    Yet today I don't see a lot of kids playing outside and getting dirty. I don't see people opening up their houses for fresh air in the spring and fall. I don't see people attending church outside. I don't see people working on their lawns or gardens, instead hiring people to do that.

    And because people aren't exposed to environmental hazards, they are getting sicker. And possibly getting autism because they're not getting exposed and keeping active and focusing and a whole buncha stuff.

    Something to consider.

    As to our foods, yeah, we have a wee bit of a problem with overly chemicalled foods. But the EU screwing us on imports just because they hate us has something to do with the EU's refusal to allow US food imports.

    And, of course, correlation isn't causation and vise-versa.

    ReplyDelete
  4. As autism has increased, so has the nuttiness of the political left. Maybe instead of an ill-defined 'autism', there's some age-unrelated 'condition' that's affecting the human brain.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Read elsewhere that Japan holds off on childhood vaccines until children reach a certain age. Are they showing fewer adverse reactions as compared to other countries with earlier vaccinations?

    ReplyDelete
  6. The rise in the number and prevalence of mental disorders is proportional to the rise of psychiatrists making money off them.

    ReplyDelete
  7. 1) It's unethical to use children in any RCTs, because they cannot consent to participate, nor apprehend the risks and benefits.
    Parental consent cuts little ice here, for the same reason Hollywood doesn't allow "stunt kids", and Jehovah's Witnesses don't get to let their kids die without transfusions when their lives are at stake.
    You don't get to roll dice with minors' lives.
    This violates the most fundamental human right of medicine: informed consent.
    {cf. Dr. Mengele's work}

    2) It's unethical to withhold vaccines which may prevent life-altering diseases from anyone. {cf. the Tuskeegee syphillis experiments}

    3) Giving children under 6 months any vaccines is beyond retarded, because they have no functional immune system at that age, and the only immunity they do have is gained by breastfeeding. Formula-fed babies are literally not even getting that.

    So factor those three facts into any plan to pin down the causes of autism, or link them to vaccines in any statistical way whatsoever.

    4) What you can do is note the increase in vaccinations, and at what ages, from 50 years ago, and compare and contrast it with current "recommended practice".
    It is equally unethical to experiment on minors by shoving 87 vaxxes into them, at ages when it used to be a number one could count on the fingers of one hand.
    One could start by reverting to that safer level, and then adding vaccinations one at a time, and tracking when, or if, things begin to skew into insanity.
    Or simply slow down and slow-walk the current approved list and rate, and track any change over time by spacing them out quite a bit less frequently, or eliminating some until maturity.

    ReplyDelete
  8. do children "outgrow" certain problems? do children "grow into" certain problems?
    as their immune systems mature? as their brain functions mature?

    ReplyDelete
  9. We already have randomized control trials. It is my understanding that you can not find an Amish kid with autism. We are essentially poisoning our kids with all of the vaccines. If they don't get autism, they will have all kinds of autoimmune issues. The drug companies are getting rich and are immune from prosecution. I have lost what little bit of faith that I had in the medical industry after watching the covid biological warfare disaster.
    Then we feed our kids the standard American diet which is loaded with sugar and an endless list of bad ingredients. (to include pesticides) Just walk into any Walmart and look around. You will find very few people in there that are not over weight and diabetic. (And the drug and medical companies just get richer.)

    ReplyDelete
  10. I can tell you exactly why autism has increased so much. The government pays for the treatment, care and even pays the parents and gives them special privileges. So now any "tic" or symptom real or not is justification to claim a child is autistic. If all funding went away today and instead was replaced with funding for every child without autism then autism would almost disappear. Autism is real of course and likely the rate of it is exactly the same as it was before vaccines were developed. But back then the insane asylums were full and autism and other mental issues were mostly hidden.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Is autism more common? Probably, since we've cured bigger problems that hid it before.
    Also probably, since the definition has expanded.
    Also probably since our environment is more complex chemically than it used to be.
    Does it have a nurture/ upbringing component? I don't know but it could.

    I could keep going with possible reasons for the increase - I don't have the training or knowledge to evaluate the likelihood of any or all of these effects. Unfortunately I'm beginning to wonder if anyone does.

    On a relates note, I read an article recently claiming that most or all ADD/ ADHD is due to poor children raising and acting out. I think it goes a little far, but he had an interesting point about the effects of child raising on behavior and shows that we need to include that as a possible cause.
    Jonathan

    ReplyDelete
  12. just reviewed the definition/symptoms of autism
    that would account for at least half the kids I knew back in K-6
    a kid who can't see well isn't all that interested in playing catch;
    a kid who's somewhat uncoordinated isn't interested in jumping execises;
    a kid who has mild anger issues (due to abuse by an older sibling);
    a kid who constantly runs off at the mouth (later became a politician;
    all of them now would be classified somewhere on the autism spectrum

    ReplyDelete
  13. Two points occur to me......

    One, the initial statement poses that the rate of autism has increased dramatically. This should be investigated first, to validate whether the increase is true. If it is, then the question becomes why. This would seem to me to be a perfectly legitimate line of inquiry.

    Second, the difficulties in pursuing a legitimate study seem to work both ways. It becomes as difficult to show that vaccines DO NOT cause autism as it is to show that they do. There seems to be a "staked in the ground" position from one side that vaccines have no connection to autism, but now I have to question how certain that position may be.

    Perhaps we won't know or be able to definitely say one way or the other. I do think that the investigation should be made, regardless.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No one can prove vaccines don't cause autism.
      The best one could hope for is a correlation rate so low as to beggar any argument that they do, and which fits inside standard deviation from the mean.
      A rate of autism no greater than random chance is as good as it gets.

      And underlining, once again, that nature always sides with the hidden flaw.
      Hence the old joke about cancer being hereditary in white lab mice.

      Delete

  14. To echo, and add a few new bits:

    Things that would be called autism now were ignored, considered "just a weird kid", or bundled under general "mental retardation", depending on severity. Now that everyone is primed to look for it, it gets seen more, especially because once kids are diagnosed, the school (and parents), get support. In families with multiple autistic children, the latter children are usually diagnosed at a younger age, because the parents are now looking for the indicators.

    The diagnosis for autism is very complicated, involving three main categories, each containing many criteria. A minimum score in 2 of 3 categories is sufficient for diagnosis. The behaviors and presentation of autism (and Asperger's) therefore have a broad range, and it is questioned whether there is one "thing" that is Autism, or whether there are many "things" that have overlapping features.

    Environmental exposures - diet, pesticides, heavy metals, etc. almost certainly have a role in autism, but without the RCTs you can't do, it's all just correlation. You think the permutations on vaccine studies are bad, consider doing the permutations on common (and up-and-coming) toxic metals, all the chemicals from plastics, organic toxins, and diet.

    There are almost certainly genetic factors involved in autism, but the number of genes estimated ranges from 10-200. With the complexity of brain development and operation, there are many ways to affect a pathway to produce similar outcomes, and many pathways that can be affected.

    And finally, for amusement purposes, given enough data, and enough processing power (and enough creative manipulation of the y-axis), you can always find something. https://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think you might have just given me a new standard web page for my occasional mentions of the insane, "he-who" correlation studies, instead of my usual reference to 538.com. Thanks!

      Delete
  15. I’m 74, grew up with a mother who only permitted the absolute minimum number of immunizations - smallpox when I was 5, as I would not have been permitted to attend kindergarten without it. I did get both the Salk and Sabin series.
    That was it. All other preventatives through exposure to someone who had the disease.
    She loosened up with my younger brother and sister, but not that much.
    I had a hell of a time convincing doctors, when grown, that I’d never had a tetanus shot. Or many other normally given.
    I’ve looked at the recommended (really, treated by doctors as mandatory) list of shots. More than 1/2 are ones for diseases that affected children raised in institutional care. They are on the list because so many kids are in very early day care, and the idea is to avoid liability. It’s CYA. It’s not in the best interest of kids who are kept from daily contact with kids in large groups until their immune systems are more fully developed.
    The other issue is too many injections, too early, given at once, to kids who may be, as kids so often do, have respiratory or other illnesses.
    It should be standard practice to avoid immunizations unless in optimal health. The increasing evidence of the role viruses play in triggering medical conditions or diseases is making it a bad idea to disregard parental concern.
    I have RA: it’s just one of the autoimmune diseases that can be triggered by a viral event. The fact that children attend government schools cannot be used to override parental responsibility for making the medical decisions for their children’s health.

    ReplyDelete