Maybe I've been triggered because I'm sensitive to the topic, maybe I'm sick of the same old ... stuff, but I saw something supposedly coming from Bobby Kennedy and the MAHA folks. I've spent hours looking for it between yesterday and today but couldn't find it again. Which makes me doubt talking about this, but it's a slow news day.
What I'd swear I saw was a list of things that they're supposedly interested in looking into the health effects of the High-frequency Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP). Coming from a career in radio design - transmitters, receivers and all the major subsystems in them - I've heard absurd fear of radio signals for so long, I start subconsciously twitching when I come across a new story.
Let's start here. Most people don't think this way but every minute of every day you live immersed in a constant soup of radio signals. Forget about your phone or your home WiFi router, the things you usually think of, there are sources from almost audio frequencies through broadcast radio, shortwave broadcasters, TV over the air, police radios, taxi radios, weather radios and on and on up into the microwave spectrum and beyond that into what are called millimeter waves that you're exposed to every day. Some of them all day, some of them irregularly or intermittently. Unless you take absurd steps to prevent this - forget the tin foil hat, it's more like a tin foil 100% cover - you live in this every day. If you turn off your phone, you turn off what it produces; the signals from every other phone and every cell tower are still there.
So let's think of it in another way the most people won't. The first law of Toxicology - the study of toxins or poisons is "The Dose Makes the Poison" and the guy who started the field said a big enough dose makes something toxic that isn't usually thought of that way. The classic example is oxygen; not just nontoxic but essential to life, as in without it we die. At a high enough partial pressure, it's toxic. That's why really deep sea diving doesn't use compressed air but exotic mixes of other gases and oxygen.
A big enough "dose" of radio will burn you. Since radio is just very, very far infrared light, it immediately brings to mind a laser. Lasers are high power lights and dose is the power. Can high power radio hurt you? Absolutely! That's why there are limits imposed on the power that systems can produce that people can be exposed to. The power required to hurt someone depends somewhat on the physical size of the radio waves; the allowable power for a system to expose the general public to is lowest around the FM broadcast band because people are similar in size to 1/4 wavelength at some point in the FM band, depending on how they're sitting; 234/freq. in MHz gives 1/4 wave, so 2.66 ft @ 88 MHz and 2.17 ft @ 108 MHz.
The saving grace of all that radio soup we live in is that it's all low power by the time it gets to us. Radio signals drop off in power very fast. It drops to 1/4 of the power every time you double the distance from the transmitter. A relationship I've shown many times here is a bit less accurate than the fully rigorous calculations, but it's easy to stick in a spreadsheet somewhere and use it when you need it.
Path loss in dB = 37 dB + 20log(f) + 20log(d) where f is the frequency in MHz and d is the distance in miles.
What's a dB? It's a decibel, a power ratio. A loss of 3 dB is 1/2 the power, -6 dB is 1/4, -9 dB is 1/8. So imagine you're calculating how much power you're exposed to from an FM broadcaster in town.
Path loss in dB = 37 dB + 20log(100) + 20log(10) where f 100 MHz and d is 10 miles
Path loss is 97 dB
Now 97 dB is a lot of loss, but FM broadcasters often start out with high powers. I have a local FM station here in town that says they start out at 1000 watts. Us Receiver guys refer to that as 60 dB more than 1.00 milliwatt or +60 dBm transmit power (dB is ratio, dBm is a power ratio to 1 milliwatt). Taking away 97 dB of that gives me -37 dBm. That's a perfectly usable signal to a radio receiver, but it's 3.2 millivolts RMS or .0032V on digital voltmeter. That's not going to hurt anybody or anything.
So let's do the same thing with HAARP, according to their documents. The frequency is 2.7 to 10 MHz, and the distance depends on where you are with respect to the transmitter. Essentially the distance is up to the ionosphere and out to your location. The ionosphere covers a fairly wide range of altitudes, but at most is in the "couple of hundred miles" range (photo below) and the altitude will drop out of the equations for a path to the center of the country. Some web searches show the center of the US is just outside of Lebanon, Kansas, and that it's close enough to say 3300 miles from HAARP.
Path loss in dB = 37 dB + 20log(10) + 20log(3300) where f 100 MHz and d is 10 miles
Path loss is 127 dB
The power of HAARP is variable, the antenna pattern can change plus there are other differences depending on what the experiment is. That said, 3.6 Million Watts is 95.6 dBm and after the path loss the level is close to previous example - a bit stronger at -31.4 dBm or closer to 6mV, .006V.
Atmospheric layer heights from Wikipedia
I tried to pick numbers for the distance that weren't too far from or too close to Alaska to be reasonable, but it's a bit surprising that these numbers ended up being within a couple of dB for a local, low power FM station and HAARP. Bottom line is I still see nothing about that situation that's remotely scary. As a general rule, the only time a radio signal can be dangerous is if you're close enough to touch the transmitter.
OHMYGOSH!!! HAAAAARRRP!!!
ReplyDeleteYeah, anyone with a lick of common sense would know that HAARP is just not dangerous at all.
Or most other radiative wave devices. Probably not a good idea to stand next to a giant transmitter when it's on, nor a very powerful radar unit (dad used to watch the radar techs blow up seagulls on boring days while on range tracking and instrumentation ships) but tens of, hundreds of, thousands of miles away? Nah.
Else the best weapon in the world would be an AEGIS equipped ship as they could zorch the pilot or the crew of anything that they could get their beam aimed at. (Though there are rumors that AEGIS at full power can do bad things up to miles away.)
The first time I was around a microwave transmitter was as a ham back in the early '80s. A friend was doing tests on a 10GHz system he was making and I'm pretty sure he an amp that gave about 5 W out. We'd put our hand in front of the waveguide flange to verify the system was putting out power. It's just not that much power. Think of grabbing the bulb of an outdoor Christmas light.
DeleteFast forward to 2011. I'm working on X-band aircraft weather radars and we're troubleshooting a test set to make sure it'll work. I stick my hand in front of the waveguide to see if the system is working. You should have seen the look on the technician's face! Not sure if he was expecting me to die or scream in pain. Followed by "whut??" "It's only 5W, bro."
Don't think Kennedy is dumb, he just doesn't have the education to understand the likes of your math. He hears someone knowledgeable speaking of this and his brain interprets it as static. Unfortunately he is surrounded by people with an agenda or are nutjobs.
ReplyDeleteSeveral years ago, a friend was telling me about an MD they worked around who was terrified of WiFi. This doc went so far as the wrap aluminum foil around the stubby little antennas on the WiFi box. I looked up a lot of industry documents from around the world and gave the files to them. I think the doc eventually calmed down about it.
DeleteOTOH, possibly there are beneficial effects they might consider looking into. I can remember looking proudly at the glow of a 6146 (fed by a 5763) the first time I fired my self-designed rat's nest up on the Novice bands, all 90 watts of unshielded power leading to a coax connection which led to a center-fed long wire. Me sitting one foot away - over 70 years ago.
ReplyDeleteK2RDL
OTthirdH, perhaps it explains why a major portion of our society has lost all ability to reason logically!
ReplyDeleteOccam's Razor sez it's the inability of our education system to ...... educate.
DeleteIt's like the pollution caused by di-hydrogen monoxide. It really scares people. They will go to extremes to avoid it. Oh, right, that's H2O. But you lost them at the first word. Most would be scared of H2O even. And don't even talk about airplanes spraying us. Great explanation of RF signal strength and power levels. WB6IRZ.
ReplyDeleteYahoos have been carrying on about HAARP since the 1970's. It's part of the plot to "Remo Williams", for crying out loud.
ReplyDeleteI've been meaning to ask - why the 37dB loss right off?
ReplyDeleteI never saw the derivation of that, but the base equations have frequency in Hertz and distances in wavelengths, so I always assumed it came from converting the frequency to MHz and distance in miles. I never really tried that, so I don't really know, but it makes sense.
DeleteGoing through "A" school in Great Mistakes, instructors used to vaporize bags of marshmellows in the beam of the air/surface search radars as a safety demonstration.
ReplyDeleteA great demonstration! I bet people remembered that.
DeleteMy brother would take the Grouse they shot out to the radar site in Bismarck, ND and throw them in front of the radar dish - they came down fully cooked, usually.
Delete55KW main bang will do that. AN-MSQ77 system.
Yes, but you can't do that at distance. It's like killing sea gulls on the ships at sea. It only works because the distance to target is so short the power hasn't dissipated yet.
DeleteAs long as tin foil hats are being examined, it is my understanding that the beef with HAARP is not the frequency or power, but what it is used for. Supposedly, HAARP was the beginning of weather modification without rain dances, cloud seeding or other intensive attempts to change the weather.
ReplyDeleteAs far fetched as that sounds, on a C-Span program in the late 90s, the top USAF weatherman stated that the AF already had the ability to modify battle field weather at will. Wet or Dry, take your pick.
Just a thought.
Dave
But it has to come down to frequency and power. Otherwise, there's no difference in trying to affect weather between using HAARP or rain dances. HAARP is simply a way of conveying energy from one place to another. Do they have abilities that they don't tell us about? Always possible. OTOH, humanity pushes tons of power into the atmosphere every day, and since shortwave broadcasters don't perpetually have rain or drought, it's a safe bet they (and HAARP) aren't affecting it. The radio fields will always, always be stronger at the source they're radiating from. Looking at pictures of their antenna array, it looks to be for what they say it is. Radio waves have a unique physical size and if the frequency was very different, it would be a bad place to try to add different antennas.
Delete"...on a C-Span program in the late 90s, the top USAF weatherman stated that the AF already had the ability to modify battle field weather at will. Wet or Dry, take your pick. " Psy-op?
SiG, it wasn't a Psy-op but just a statement about what the AF could do. In the late 70s and throughout the 80s at AF schools, papers were written on just about any warfighting or leadership issue with some turning into research projects. Instead of CBUs dropping bomblets, they would dispense a super sticky glue so that whatever it touched would adhere in place. Or, dispense slippery goo so that trucks couldn't move and soldiers would slip and slide. Crowd control with heat rays, microwave machines to view personnel at a distance to see what is hidden under their clothing and a host of other crazy sounding ideas that were actually acted on. The weathermen wrote out their ideas also. Some worked and some didn't.
DeleteConsider how crazy stealth sounded when it started making the news. Or the SR-71 years ago when it made its public debut. Just thoughts.
Dave
CBUs dropping sticky or slippery goo is so far from radio you can't even see it. Microwave machines to see what's under clothes or heat people? The first one is in every airport TSA Check-in spot in America. Radio to heat people at a distance sucks power like crazy, but sometimes it's all you can do.
DeleteChanging weather with radio? You're talking about transferring energy to or out of the atmosphere, which is famously transparent to radio. Can it be done at some frequency? None that I know of.
The infamous inverse-square law being enforced and expressed.
ReplyDeleteHooray for a post by someone with a brain! I despair at all of those poor scared silly people who are afraid of non-ionizing radiation (and who can't grasp the concept of a dose -- I'm looking at you, mass media). And HAARP is for low frequency communications with submarines and nothing else, sheesh.
ReplyDeleteHere's a out of left field theory for you, just spitballing mind you, your posts title is intriguing. Maybe you where triggered cause they used a microwave frequency DEW weapon on you, lot out there regarding possible physiological effects, (particularly dumbing down of targeted individuals, from the agency so well loved), because first your not DEI and second your a successful WG, and only chosen in this day are permitted such success, add they want your blog shut down.
ReplyDeleteSig, as a kid I had some experience with RF burns - my brother and I were setting up Dad's CB back in '67 so the SWR was as perfect as we could get it. I was holding the antenna up occasionally and a day later my hands (mostly the left one) we so swollen I couldn't move them. I got a schooling in what NOT to do around transmitters early in life.
ReplyDeleteSo, here I am in the Utah Spinal Clinic last fall, getting wires stuck in my back around the L3-L4-L5 area due to a cracked L4 spinal bone. They fry the nerves and when they grow back (and they DO, I found out!!) they zap 'em again. Being medical people, they call it Radiofrequency Ablation, a fancy of saying RF burns. Check it out on the InterWebbies. The Doc was amazed I knew exactly what was going on until I explained my earliest run-in with proximity and RF energy.
Never thought I'd have a cracked spine in my Old Age.
Yeah, but... part of my whole point was that "the dose makes the poison", or in this case, the burn. There's a big, big difference between holding an antenna and radiation coming from far away. I never meant that RF can't burn you. Been there, done that, no tee shirts handed out.
DeleteIn radio, we talk about near field and far field, and those are falling off at different rates. Once the antenna looks electrically small, and that's usually stated in wavelengths away from the antenna, the field is down to 1/4 of its strength every time you double the distance from the source.
As a reasonable estimate, say 10 wavelengths is where far field starts. CB radio wavelength is around 11 meters or 35 feet, so to get to where the field is dropping off at 6 dB per distance doubling, 350 feet from the antenna. At 350 feet it's some power level. At twice that, 700 feet, 1/4 of that power. At 1050 feet, 1/4 of 1/4.
The Aetherczar has a great series about what's going on with near field propagation. With handy graphics.
Deletehttps://aetherczar.substack.com/p/462-the-accelerating-charge-model
That's an interesting link, so thanks. I skimmed it and then had to do some stuff. I need to go back to re-read it.
Delete"You can't use common sense and logic to argue people out of a position that they didn't use common sense and logic to get themselves into in the first place."
ReplyDeleteThe problem with half of Kennnedy's fanbase is they're the same people arguing for a flat earth, and running around with torches and pitchforks trying to monkeywrench electrical power because it's from Satan.