Somewhat weirdly, NASA official Jim Free appeared before a meeting of the Aeronautics and Space Engineering Board and Space Studies Board in Washington, DC last week and praised cost-plus contracts, saying the fixed cost contracts that bought NASA the SpaceX Crew Dragon and the Starship variant called the Human Landing System do the agency "no good." To be completely even-handed, while the successes of the Crew and Cargo Dragons are without question, neither Starship, its HLS variant or the Boeing Starliner have successfully flown and all were contracted as fixed price contracts.
Free specifically went after SpaceX, saying their delays in getting the HLS flying are probably going to push the 2025 Artemis III mission out. Before the HLS variant can fly, SpaceX has to do much more than just reach orbit. They're on contract to develop fueling on orbit and the Starship goals are completely dependent on that milestone.
"That’s a lot of launches to get those missions done," Free said. "They have a significant number of launches to go, and that, of course, gives me concern about the December of 2025 date" for Artemis III. "With the difficulties that SpaceX has had, I think that’s really concerning,” Free added. "You can think about that slipping probably into ’26."
Seriously? Back last November, I noted that I've seen a prediction by a guy who has been scary accurate in his predictions saying that Artemis III won't launch until '27 instead of '25. Eric Berger at Ars Technica has better sources than I do and says, a more realistic date "for Artemis III is probably 2028-ish."
Oddly, Free also questioned the value of the contract mechanism that NASA used to hire SpaceX and its Starship lander. "The fact is, if they’re not flying on the time they’ve said, it does us no good to have a firm, fixed-price contract other than we’re not paying more," he said.
What Free isn't acknowledging in any way is that the entire Artemis and SLS programs were written as cost-plus contracts and they reached orbit for the first time five years late and billions over budget. There isn't one aspect of the Artemis/SLS program that was on time, let alone early, nor has any aspect been under budget. There's no correlation between being cost-plus and getting the hardware done on time. If anything, it goes better with fixed price contracts.
For example, I've beaten this dead horse many times.
These are six of the 18 RS-25 or Space Shuttle Main Engines (SSME) NASA has
for Artemis. Keep in mind one of sarcastic lines about the SLS is that it doesn't
stand for Space Launch System, it stands for the Shuttles' Leftover Shit.
Designed for reuse on the Shuttles, these leftovers will be used once and discarded in
the deep Atlantic.
I've been reading and reporting about cost overruns on these 1970s-vintage
engines for years now. In
May of 2020, I found out that the first stage engines would cost $146 million per
engine, so nearly $600 million ($584 m) for just the four engines of the
booster core. Engines that will litter the floor of the Atlantic after
one use. I've said many times, the RS-25 engines are rated at 512,000
pounds of thrust and that's not a level that nobody else can provide.
Both Blue Origin's BE-4 engines and SpaceX's Raptor 2 (and the newer Raptor 3)
are in the same class. Blue Origin sells the BE-4 for less than $20
million. The Raptor's design price point is under $1 million (I read $500,000 once).
Note that SLS couldn't just decide to switch to either BE-4 or Raptors; those are methane/lox engines while the vehicle itself is based on liquid hydrogen and oxygen so the entire vehicle would have to be redesigned.
As a veteran of the defense and space industry purchasing paradigm, I've been around cost-plus and fixed cost contracts. The only place where I think cost-plus makes sense is when you're developing technology nobody has ever done before. That's more like Starship than SLS. No company has ever attacked the scale problem that SpaceX has attacked with Starship. For example, NASA reportedly wants to land just ~180 kilograms (~400 lb) of cargo with the first crewed HLS. That's less than 2/10 of a metric ton. Starship is probably going to be capable of landing dozens of tons of cargo in addition to several astronauts.
In contrast, SLS isn't as powerful as the Saturn V, leading to the Gateway, the NRHO, and the indirect flight path to the moon. They had RS-25 engines in storage they could just use. The Solid Rocket Boosters on SLS are direct descendants of the Shuttle program's SRBs - they have an extra segment to deliver a little (20%?) more power. They made the core diameter of the SLS the same diameter as the Shuttle program's version. It's a large amount of design reuse, and a fixed cost contract makes more sense to me.
Berger questioned one of Jim Free's colleagues at NASA and got a good quote:
"I can't give him a pass on the fixed-price comment," one of these officials said of Free. "On cost-plus contracts, the hardware is always late, and you pay more. On fixed-price contracts, it's only late. So yeah, his comment was technically accurate but totally tone-deaf. What really makes me worried is that I think it shows where the heart of the agency is."
My view is that cost-plus contracts do a couple of things that make them fit in NASA's and every agency's purchasing paradigm. First, they funnel money to lots of congressional districts which is good for attracting votes. Second, that money in turn can get funneled back to those congress critters (or senators - let's be complete). It's like when politicians funnel money to unions and the unions funnel portions back to the politicians.
Last words to Eric Berger at Ars Technica. Good article if you're into this stuff.
NASA's approach toward commercial contracts really only gained momentum during the administration of Jim Bridenstine, who championed the idea of the space agency being one of many customers, and buying services rather than committing to long-term cost-plus contracts. But he left in early 2021, before Free's arrival. Now, Free is saying that fixed-price contracts may not have much value for NASA.
Is the old guard about to exact its revenge on new space?
"My view is that cost-plus contracts do a couple of things that make them fit in NASA's and every agency's purchasing paradigm. First, they funnel money to lots of congressional districts which is good for attracting votes. Second, that money in turn can get funneled back to those congress critters (or senators - let's be complete). It's like when politicians funnel money to unions and the unions funnel portions back to the politicians."
ReplyDeleteI totally agree! This is a big part of why this country is in the financial mess that it is in.
Ah, poop. What a load of crock, filled night-soil pots to be exact.
ReplyDeleteStarliner is on par with SLS for boondoggle after boondoggle, the only difference is that we the taxpayers aren't directly paying for Starliner's stupidity and bad engineering.
And as I've pointed out before, all the RS25s are are trumped-up J2s from the Saturn program.
The whole SLS system, Orion Capsule, the boosters, the engines, the main tank, are all legacy products. Ain't nothing new at all, no new research, no new tech leaps, nothing.
Meanwhile SpaceX is going great guns at full speed with brand new product after brand new product, making leaps in technology and leaps in practical engineering, making legacy aerospace look like the joke it is.
Watched a movie the other night. In the squad room of the police department was the sign "No Crimes Solved Until Overtime." That's Cost-Plus for you.
Makes me wonder if Mr. Free has a job offer in legacy aerospace when he steps down from NASA. Or how many of his grandchildrens' braces are being paid for by LA venders.
"Makes me wonder if Mr. Free has a job offer in legacy aerospace when he steps down from NASA. Or how many of his grandchildrens' braces are being paid for by LA venders.
DeleteOh yeah - Free is setting himself up for a job "somewhere else" when he leaves. That much is pretty darn evident in his statements.
Who hired this loser, anyway? Oh yeah, that's right...
At least he is not Dan Goldin!
ReplyDeleteIt is a given, as much as it is apparent, we live on a world which exists under a fark power, that which operates along the fringes of the shadows if you will, that will do whatever it takes to inhibit people from escaping its power.
ReplyDeleteThat it can not tolerate any chance even of humans getting into space in any uncontrolled manner, as the primary motive has to do with people getting free of its power out in the vast uncontroled reaches of the solar system. See, each if us have a certain value, and our intrinsic value is our intrinsic wealth, basicaly we are slaves, a corporate part of a money allication system, based exactly on each of our, and our collective worth, so we are exactly that, valuable, and in this system we are traded, our wealth, which we only receive a mere pittence of, is traded like a commodity, this is the heart and crux of the monetary system those who operate secretively enjoy and various bloodline and orders divvy up the human lucre, of course at our sufference. It has to stop any attempt, at any cost, as once free humans attain self sufficiency and create sustainable technologies for independent life off planet earth, it would be a nervulean task to try to control people living out in the solar system. So the main strategy is to stop any chance of it yaking place. An adendum to this is the inhibition of technological advancements not under its control. If you where growing up in the 50's-60's and are reasonably tech orientated, aling about the era of the Clinton regime technology has not advanced much past what was thelate 60's. Sure theres been digital and software, mining and extractive industry advancements, those are allowed because they have little to do with aerospace technology. Notice the pattern in detail, where more and more technology appears in stasis, ask yourself how this can be? Why it is so? Why nothing exists tech wise with power sats technology, why when its literally unlimited and free for the taking, solar power beamed down to earth stations? A myriad of possibilities exists only limited by imagination and ingenuity, and theres nothing but crickets? And what exists of efforts of humanity to reach escape orbit off of planet earth, is mired in every concievable administrative or regulatory tyranny? Like putting lead weights on a rocket ship. Just control after control, never the other way, never any clean break, the pattern in detail is a pattern of intended failure, mostly thru the powers of administrative intrusion into every facet of efforts to attain human technological escape velocity off earth into space.
Space, the final frontier; all the frontier you could possibly use is only 100 miles away, straight up. Imagine what happens when technological growth allows SpaceX levels of success from a company of not 1,500 people but 150, then 15. Today, copenhagensuborbitals.com is doing a crowdfunded replay of Gemini. How soon until somebody crowdfunds a fission bomb to sit on top of that? If the prey can fight stronger, the predators are diminished. Darwin suggests peace comes from fractal MAD. In our lifetimes we will achieve peace and justice for all 8 billion human beings.
DeleteNASA can take as long to die as it needs. SpaceX will continue to run/jog towards fulfilling its mission plan. The only real thing I worry about is that this government can prevent them from launching simply by refusing to license it. Musk may have to move the whole kit and kaboodle to some other country.
ReplyDeleteMalatrope, you brought in something that I saw in the article. I think that Mr. Free's comments are part of the political push to shut down the Starship program. Robert Zimmerman of Behind the Black posted an article "The evidence shows clearly that Biden has worked to squelch Elon Musk and SpaceX". Elon Musk is not being part of the Leftist Billionaire's Club supporting the Democratic Party, and the Junta needs to punish him.
DeleteWould SpaceX have flown the Starship again if it had been allowed? I suspect it would have... I did wonder why they were being slowed down...
DeleteRob, the Government is slow-walking the Starship development. From all appearances, SpaceX is making headway on the next launch. The big obstacle is rebuilding the Orbital Launch Mount that suffered a great deal of damage. If you watch Lab Padre or NASASpaceFlight videos you can see the work that is ongoing. Elon just gave another 6 to 8 weeks till ready for the next launch of B9/S25. Hopefully it will make it to booster separation at an appropriate altitude this time.
DeleteCost-plus was perfect for the kind of incompetent control freaks at NASA. Spend more and more time for fewer and less spectacular results; The moon in 1969 to needing Russian help to attain LEO in 2011.
ReplyDeleteJudging by Mr. Free's pic on twitter, he is close to needing a job with a space company to supplement his federal pension. Without cost-plus, he may have to follow the path of Gerstenmaier and actually have to work in his retirement job.
That's scary stuff when the new space companies make you look like a non-productive roadblock rather than what you claim to be.
SpaceX is making cost-plus look bad, I hadn't thought of the "plus" money not making it to the usual pockets. That would explain the roadblocks set up since the Biden regime took over.
ReplyDeleteMy mistake was forgetting the rule of modern America... Follow the money..
The ICBM is the largest caliber weapon, and NASA is gun control. But I believe armed drones will soon lap them and take the top spot for price/performance.
ReplyDeleteOnce two strangers climbed ol' Rocky Top
Lookin' for a moonshine still
Strangers ain't come down from Rocky Top
Reckon they never will