Unless someone has broken their secrecy agreements, we probably don't know the truth about what went down, and besides: first news reports are always wrong (although I like this one). Did they fly helicopters disguised to look like the Pakistani choppers? Did they spoof transponder codes or other responses so that Islamabad ATC thought they were Pakistani? Did the US pilots answer calls in the native language? Did some key insiders in their government know? The team was apparently on the ground for 40 minutes, enough time for them to scramble a helicopter to check out what was going on. We have pretty good reason to believe that much of their intelligence services, the ISI, is on Bin Boy's side, so that they would have warned him that an operation was on the way, and by the time our guys got there, he would have been somewhere on K2.
Sounds like it went as well as a complex operation can go. No one was injured. Captured lots of evidence. And whoever it was who did the double tap followed training perfectly (anyone worth shooting is worth shooting twice). Everyone is reporting it was the SEALS; Seal Team Six, which officially doesn't exist any more. My bet is it was a combo of SEALS and Delta, probably with some CIA guys - the "All Pro" team of special ops. Whoever it was, I really only have one thing to say: Thank you. Well, a few things: Thank you. God bless you. Well done.
It's probably inappropriate to say, but since this is relatively anonymous: I used to be a seal. I have only one picture from my training days, which I release with some trepidation.
Wait - you thought I meant I was a Navy SEAL? Ha hahahahahahahahaha.
Where did you get a current photo of me at the beach? I know I've gained abit of weight, but that photo makes it all so clear.
ReplyDeleteGood on the team that brought that worthless individual down. We're especially glad that there were no U.S. injuries.
An elephant seal? I would've thought a leopard seal.
ReplyDeleteTurns out that OBL was unarmed and not sheltering behind any woman.
ReplyDeleteSo, the valiant soldiers executed a middle-aged man ... and some by-standers.
Extra-judicial killing is murder. Nothing to crow about. It's a symptom of America's decline towards fascism.
Anonymous 10:04 throws a damper on things.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, this is the one aspect of the UBL whack that I have difficulty with. First off, I'd take just about any bet that we don't know the truth of what happened there. We just know what has been put out for public consumption. Latest is that it wasn't even ordered by the President. Since he wouldn't make a decision (no option to vote "present"), the CIA went and did it on their own. Technically, that's a DOD/CIA coup.
More to the point, what do you propose be done? At the very least, the guy was a mass murderer of pretty epic proportions. Not just the three-plus thousand here, but those killed in the African bombings (Kenya, Tanzania), and all around the Mideast since the mid-1990s. Do you propose we pick him up and bring him to trial? Where? He's not a US citizen, why should he be brought here and be given the rights of a US citizen? Where do you propose a fair trial be held, and fair under whose rules? How do you make it secure? Who pays?
Where trial by jury really shines is for Joe Average, accused of doing something wrong and a jury of his peers weighs the evidence. Where it seems unnecessary is in cases like this, or like Saddam Hussein, Pol Pot and other well-known mass murderers. There's tons of evidence available. If you want to argue he wasn't responsible and that the US Government did it, or Dick Cheney's secret army or the Mossad, not here, man. Homey don't play that.
Targeted assassination or a decapitation strike (in the strategic sense) has been a valid military technique for all of history, but we all have to draw a line somewhere, right? I draw the line at American citizens. This American Imam who lives in Yemen and influenced the Ft. Hood killer - Anwar al-Awlaki - he should be captured and taken back to the states. Adam Gaddan, the gay Al Gaeda spokesman - sorry he's American. Bring him back for trial.
A Saudi/Yemeni like Bin Boy? They can slit his throat, stuff him with bacon and use him for shark bait for all I care.
If we had done a little more throat slitting and a little less "shock and awe" and nation building, a lot of fine young adults would still be with us.
Enemy combatants in war are not given the rights of citizens. They are not treated as criminals. Should Hitler, had he not suicided, been arrested and tried in a civilian court, or in the military tribunals with the rest of the scum at Nuremberg?
ReplyDeleteOur judicial system is riddled with injustice, usually of men being convicted of things that should not be against the law, but often with the escape from justice of those who manipulate the system to avoid paying the penalty for what they have actually done. (Like OJ, perhaps?)
Bin Laden bragged about what he did. He was completely unrepentant. Our judicial system exists to protect the innocent, not to provide a PR venue for scum like Bin Laden. Since there was never any doubt of his guilt, why would you quail at administering justice when the means were at hand?
Perhaps the team feared the possibility of not being able to take him into custody, a situation that could have changed after they applied a double tap to his head.
Bottom line: there existed not the slightest doubt of his guilt, of his responsibility for the deaths of thousands of Americans, most of them non-combatants. Terrorists do not deserve the protections of our (admittedly flawed) judicial system.
Get over it, Anonymous. America is not and never has been, for all her flaws, a fascist state - although it is moving that way thanks to collectivists and those limp-wristed libertarians who won't fight to protect what we have. (Not all libertarians are Paulian total non-interventionists.)
Yes, we have engaged in military adventures that we shouldn't have, like destroying Kosovo in order to make people forget about a few stains on a blue dress. That and the other times we have committed military resources to protect muslims, including in Libya. But fighting the jihadis, the scum who want a universal caliphate, the scum who kill civilians and small children in their parents arms, muslims who torture and rape little girls in their school (Beslan) before killing them in large numbers, is worthy of celebration, not condemnation and sniveling comparisons to true fascist states.
Also, allow me to say that I have no trouble believing that DOD went over the President's head on this. For all of his posturing and self-congratulation for taking such decisive action (what a lying sack o' shite), it is totally inconsistent with his steadfast refusal to take a stand on anything other than the joys of socialism to think he would have approved this without pulling a Clinton and informing the Paki government and allowing Bin Laden to scarper off into the hills. I especially believe the notion that someone on his staff - Powers, perhaps - tried to abort the mission. Without Obama's input, but because she knew he didn't even have the balls to say "No".
If the truth ever comes out, I would guess that either A) Obama insisted on dumping the body to appease the muslims who would be upset at us keeping possession of the corpse for display or even eventual repatriation, or B) the body was dumped because it was an impostor who actually got whacked. Hopefully we will learn more and more of the truth as people involved speak out.
If I understand you correctly, you are saying that "justice" is only for Americans.
ReplyDeleteWhich is another way of saying that, "some people are more valuable than others."
Which is another way of saying, "At heart, I am a supremacist."
How does that sit with the teachings of Christ?
Or, perhaps, you have a different rationale.
Well, Anonymous, since my other post didn't past muster, let me try again. Since you obviously _don't_ understand correctly.
ReplyDeleteJustice is not equivalent with the judicial system. In fact, often justice is not done in our court system. But when it is done, when we at least attempt to apply justice to that system, it is to protect the innocent from being punished inappropriately, especially when the crime is malum prohibitum rather than malum per se. Since I doubt you know the difference between the two, please allow me to explain: malum per se refers to acts which are bad in and of themselves. Murder (not killing), rape, child molestation, terminating newborn infants (notice I didn't say terminating a "fetus", that's another argument.) Malum prohibitum refers to acts like spitting on the sidewalk, exceeding an arbitrary speed limit, "cheating" on your taxes. These malum prohibitum crimes are all - since you appear to want us to believe you are religious - man-made offenses, not offenses against God and moral behavior as are the malum per se.
Bin Laden freely admitted his crimes, his responsibility for the deaths of thousands of non-combatant civilians. His crimes were not only malum per se, he _bragged_ about them. He reveled in his responsibility for those acts. There is no reason to bring him to trial unless you wish to argue an insanity plea for him, and even then his crimes were so egregious that the insanity defense is no more valid than allowing a rabid dog to live instead of putting it down. (Yes, I did indeed equate Bin Laden with a rabid dog. )
The courts, if not manipulated by those who would wish to free him or enable him to escape punishment in some fashion, would only convict him. Due to the nature of his crimes, their extraordinary severity and special circumstances, would demand a penalty of death (unless you are against the death penalty, which would not surprise me.)
So, he admitted his crimes, was completely non-repentant, and continued to try to kill more non-believers, or at least exhort his followers and Al-Qaeda to commit further atrocities. What don't you understand about his culpability?
As SG says, this is war. In war-time, it is normal and acceptable to seek to assassinate the leaders of your enemy, especially one who is not a head of state. He was such an enemy, and deserved death not only for the deaths he inflicted upon innocents, but for those he planned for the future. It was therefore quite necessary and desirable to both stop him from future atrocities and punish him for those he admitted causing.
Please, stop trying to put your confused words into the mouths of others and accept that you simply didn't understand. I hope this may help you understand.
Anon - assuming you were talking to me, no you didn't understand me at all.
ReplyDeleteI'm saying the US Constitution applies to US citizens, not everyone in the world. I'll grant that American police should treat everyone in the US as a citizen until proven otherwise, since it's still most likely the case. I see no reason why any citizen of another country should be treated under American laws and not under their own. Seems imperialistic to apply our laws to other countries - they have their own constitutions. And someone like Bin Boy, who has been kicked out of his native country and at least one other, especially doesn't deserve to be treated under the US constitution.
Now - to your larger question, "some people are more valuable than others" - that's stupid. Who's more valuable, someone who helps others, loves others, heals others, or someone who steals, kills and destroys? Someone who recues children or someone who straps bombs to them? Sorry, Charles Manson is not as valuable as a doctor. Of course some people are more valuable than others. Based on who they are, not a thinly veiled "raaaacism" charge. As Jesus said, you'll know them by their fruits.