Friday, September 25, 2020

About That Other Topic Sucking Up My Attention

In a comment to my post about concealed carry insurance, John Galt posted this link to a graphic created over at Sniper Country that compared most of the plans.  I used that graphic as the starting point for my own spreadsheet, which was not done in as pretty a format as Sniper Country's.  I checked as much data as I could on their graphic because it was dated December of '19 and I wanted to make sure it was still accurate.  Then I expanded their graphic.  That was because they only listed one option from the providers that had several tiers of coverage to choose from.  In all cases, it was the company's top of the line (most expensive but highest benefits) coverage.  It didn't take too long for me to realize that it would be a ton of work to list every option from every seller.  On top of that, not every provider lists their coverages in a straightforward way that makes it feasible to get the information I want.     

Without further setup, let me show you a screen capture of the full spreadsheet; click it to embiggen it:

This is a 1568x924 sized jpeg so hopefully legible to everyone interested. I've expanded the original four columns to eight, adding a second column for a lower level service at CCWSafe, a column for 2nd Call Defense and two columns for USCCA, expanding it from one to three. 

Interpreting legalese and advertising isn't the most straightforward thing in the world, but I tried. 

There were questions that I simply can't answer.  The very first question, by BladeRunner1066 was:

Is this "insurance" listed with your state insurance commissioner? Do you have a legally enforceable contract?

I believe the only company in this list that's an insurance company is 2nd Call Defense, although the USCCA might be insurance as well.  The others are agreements for law services.  They seem to work (extrapolating off the end my data, so beware!) much like cost sharing services that have sprung up for medical costs.  They pool the monies they get in fees for membership and whatever else, then use that to pay for the services.  The companies all have lists of excluded states they can't operate in.  That question is probably closer to the bottom of the ones I'll ask.

An anonymous comment asked:

- Would Zimmerman be covered?
- Would the two lawyers in St. Louis be covered?
- Would Rittenhouse be covered for going and looking for trouble and finding it?
- Would whatshisname the recent restaurant owner be covered?

All I can tell you is what I've read.  As I always I say, I'm not a lawyer, I'm some dood with a blog.  I saw nobody bragging about covering Zimmerman and I'd think the other cases are too new to be in their ads.  If I'm remembering properly, Zimmerman was acting as some sort of unofficial guard (that is, not a "real," licensed, bonded, private security company) in his community and that has got to change the odds of his having an armed encounter.  I can't imagine workers in a security company would have the same insurance and pay the same rates as armed civilians. 

My impression, because this is the way the companies seem to talk, is that their model is the one on one interaction where someone is on their property in some way (house, car, yard, you name it) and another person or persons tries armed robbery, armed home invasion, something like that.  Those are relatively straightforward classic self defense cases.  It seems to me that anything going on in these riots has to be pushing the boundaries of what any of our insurance plans pay for, from homeowner's to car insurance to anything. 


  1. Since you're doing the research...

    I'd read someone saying all of these plans are reimbursement after a successful defense, but pay nothing until then and especially don't pay on a guilty verdict.

    If that's true, you're going to have to either fund your defense yourself until you win, or hope your lawyer will take you on a contingency.

  2. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    1. Please block these AHoles who post advertisements.

    2. Unfortunately, it seems that my choices are to moderate all comments - like a lot of bloggers are doing - or just delete them on sight. I'm set so that all comments to posts over 14 days old are moderated and there aren't usually any to older posts.

      I get all comments forwarded to GMail, so there are times I'll have a dozen or more spam comments in there and I have to go to every post and delete them.

      You've got to wonder who thinks they'll get business for packing and moving in India to post spam to blogs all over the world. It has got to be a flaming waste of money.

  3. Replies
    1. The row with a gap in it. I was never able to find out if 2nd Call pays up front or reimburses.

  4. Someone asked if these programs are reimbursement ( some are ) or cash up front. Since I am using Texas Law Shield I reached out to them and to my surprise received a response Over The Weekend.
    Here is their response. Hope this helps.
    Thank you for contacting U.S & Texas LawShield.
    We are not a reimbursement program. Your membership fees covers your Attorneys fees. I also show you have Bail Bonds/Expert Witness on your plan and that will provide up to 50K for your bond.

    As mentioned previously Texas Law Shield ( called US Lawshield everywhere else) is café pay for what options you want. In my case they provide me a lawyer upfront plus I get up to $50K upfront for Bail and I get expert witness if needed. ( Expert witnesses who are available to consult and testify regarding firearms and ballistics may may consult regarding ammunition, ballistics, firearms, firearms design, and gun accidents. These firearms and ballistics experts may provide reports concerning gun laws, guns, gunshot evidence, gunshots, handguns, and hunting. They may also opine on issues regarding ordnance, pistols, rifles, shooting ranges, shootings, shotguns, and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), among other topics )

    1. Thanks loads for adding that information. Having a cafeteria style pricing plan makes it hard to make a clear spreadsheet, but they sound good, and several people mentioned having their coverage on the first post.

  5. Yesterday I got this email:

    Federal Civil Suit: Giles v. USCCA "Self-Defense Insurance"

    In today's Law of Self Defense Members-only content I touch upon the case of Kayla Giles, which is back in the news, particularly her lawsuit in Federal court against USCCA for its purported breach of its obligations to cover her self-defense legal expenses as a Platinum-level member in good standing, because her defense attorney last week filed a motion requesting that the civil suit by Giles against USCCA be suspended while the criminal case for which Giles' needs her Platinum-level benefits proceeds to a conclusion.

    That's the topic of today's content, which Law of Self Defense Members can access at the image or link below:

    Suppose in 1940's Germany the Nazis charge you with some crime. The mayor of your little group of Jews tells you that obedience to majority rule is the highest virtue; you have a moral duty to scrupulously obey every law, even while your civil rights are being dismantled around you. The mayor tells you in general terms this is strategic, but the battle plan does not make concrete sense. There is unlikely to be an actual win available at the end of your prosecution. You can't outspend the government, you can't run out the clock, you can't mobilize public opinion. We call this mayor a collaborationist. That's what these "gun insurance companies" are, marketing associations of collaborationists. You have purchased only the right to pay dues. How you will be helped depends on how working your particular case makes their future marketing efforts look good. In return for a few $hundred a year there's some chance you will be helped with an easy case. Don't trust it farther than that. Lose the "insurance" and you will lose the case.

    The average middle class can't wrap their head around the idea that most of the leaders and most of the laws are evil. While the victims line up for the boxcars they talk about how [their leader] is really playing six-level underwater chess, and 'if only the emperor knew'.

  6. I looked up this case because I had memories of seeing something about USCCA being involved in a lawsuit over lack of payment. It turns out it's the story I remembered coming across. The reference was October '19 and the shooting was September of '18, so this has been going on at least that long.

    I figure any company can screw up or have a dispute, but if any of these companies is regularly screwing members, they need to be outed.

    The fact that we don't find thousands of these stories involving lots of companies indicates that your mental model isn't correct.